which instrumentalist is hardest to find?

[ridethetiger]

Well, I've heard complains from friends' bands abt drummers hard to find,regardless of genres.
And I saw it with my eyes too at Musicians wanted section. How far is it true?

 

[bombthebasses]

a good singer

 

[eggmoneer]

In my Opinion, Drummers are the worst kind, baddest attitudes, I wish I can name names here. But I don't do this kind of things, so yeah..

 

[bombthebasses]

drummers hard to find ?

is it so ?

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drummers hard to find ?

is it so ?

 

[tryambaka]

Keyboardists are hardest, all I found are pianists -_-"

 

[centralcatchment]

In my Opinion, Drummers are the worst kind, baddest attitudes, I wish I can name names here. But I don't do this kind of things, so yeah..

I think it's more the case that people ahve bad attitudes towards drummers. One band I've had, the guitarist (leader) fell out with the drummer because the guitarist was complaining about the weird time signatures of the compositions. (In this case I'm with the drummer - I believe that you shouldn't write music with funny time signatures unless absolutely necessary, like Mission Impossible).

Drummers do the most physical work on stage other than the bandleaders / dancers. But they get the least recognition. Drummers are seldom the leaders of their bands. I can only think of Art Blakey. The other drummer band leaders are multi-instrumentalists who also play the drums - John McEntire, Don Henley, Karen Carpenter. Drummers get under- recognised. A friend of mine actually said, "there's no such thing as a good drummer". Even the best ones - Stewart Copeland, Mitch Mitchell, Steve Shelley, Paul Thompson - get overshadowed by the rest of the band. Which members of Led Zeppelin and the Who drunk themselves to death? Which members of the Smashing Pumpkins and the Clash were heroin addicts?

Even the drummers who contribute a lot to their bands other than drumming get overshadowed. Nobody realised how important Bill Berry was until he left REM. Grant Hart and Bob Mould feuded so much they still are not talking today. There was this episode where Mick Jagger started complaining about "my drummer" and Charlie Watts had a fistfight with Mick Jagger afterwards and called him "my singer".

Drummers who stand out too much are quickly put in their place. Pete Best was fired from the Beatles for being more handsome than John Lennon and Paul McCartney, and they put a more humble person - Ringo Starr - in his place.

So next time - treat your drummer right!

- - - Updated - - -

In my Opinion, Drummers are the worst kind, baddest attitudes, I wish I can name names here. But I don't do this kind of things, so yeah..

I think it's more the case that people ahve bad attitudes towards drummers. One band I've had, the guitarist (leader) fell out with the drummer because the guitarist was complaining about the weird time signatures of the compositions. (In this case I'm with the drummer - I believe that you shouldn't write music with funny time signatures unless absolutely necessary, like Mission Impossible).

Drummers do the most physical work on stage other than the bandleaders / dancers. But they get the least recognition. Drummers are seldom the leaders of their bands. I can only think of Art Blakey. The other drummer band leaders are multi-instrumentalists who also play the drums - John McEntire, Don Henley, Karen Carpenter. Drummers get under- recognised. A friend of mine actually said, "there's no such thing as a good drummer". Even the best ones - Stewart Copeland, Mitch Mitchell, Steve Shelley, Paul Thompson - get overshadowed by the rest of the band. Which members of Led Zeppelin and the Who drunk themselves to death? Which members of the Smashing Pumpkins and the Clash were heroin addicts?

Even the drummers who contribute a lot to their bands other than drumming get overshadowed. Nobody realised how important Bill Berry was until he left REM. Grant Hart and Bob Mould feuded so much they still are not talking today. There was this episode where Mick Jagger started complaining about "my drummer" and Charlie Watts had a fistfight with Mick Jagger afterwards and called him "my singer".

Drummers who stand out too much are quickly put in their place. Pete Best was fired from the Beatles for being more handsome than John Lennon and Paul McCartney, and they put a more humble person - Ringo Starr - in his place.

So next time - treat your drummer right!

 

[bombthebasses]

Keyboardists are hardest,
all I found are pianists -_-"

what's the difference with
keyboardist and pianist ?

you can find a keyboardist
from someone who learn yamaha electone

 

[Cheez]

Oboe player. One of the most difficult instrument to play, let alone play well.

 

[bombthebasses]

Oboe player.
One of the most difficult instrument to play,
let alone play well.

can it be replace by a keyboard
player using oboe samples with
a wind controller ?

 

[eggmoneer]

Centralcatchment,

I guess it all boils down to who is the unofficial 'leader'? The one who recruit everyone in or the one who thinks everyone else should listen to him/her. The example you've given is a bit confusing, who wrote the odd timing original that the drummer made mistake with? Shouldn't original be written with everyone involved since it's a band effort and not hiring some sessionist to play out your song?

 

[centralcatchment]

Yes, you're right, my example is a little confusing. I meant to write that it was the guitarist who wrote the song, and it was the drummer who complained about the weird time signatures. It's a shame that the band fell apart. The guitarist and the drummer were both very talented, and me, the poor keyboardist was wondering if I was ever going to keep up.

And you're right that who the "leader" is is important. I'm not a believer in composition by committee. I believe that any song has an owner, and the writer of the song is usually the leader when that song is played. Even the Lennon-McCartney partnership - it's usually quite clear which songs were written by Lennon, which ones were McCartney. Very few Beatles songs were true collaborations. It is the practice of many bands who stick together to credit the songs to everyone even though all the songs were written by individuals. Husker Du didn't do that, and the fallout was quite spectacular. I'm a believer in - no more than one person leads the band at any given time.

Before you pick up the drums, you already know - the drummer is almost never the leader. It is difficult to lead the band from behind the drum kit. Think about Dave Grohl who formed his own band. He switched instruments!

I give you another example - U2. When they were making Achtung Baby, there was a drastic change in direction, and the drummer was getting very anxious about whether his role in the band would be reduced. Luckily it turned out that there was a place for everyone during that change in direction. But these are the things that can break a band. It's not easy to be a drummer because you have to put your ego aside for everybody else almost all the time.

I give you yet another example. "With a Little Help From My Friends" is a song by the Beatles about a person getting anxious about whether his friends are going to support him. Who sang that song? The drummer, of course.

 

[indevil]

instrumentalists are easy to find.. it's just hard to find the right one. perhaps. and form together a band.

 

[CrazyCactusJack]

in a rock/metal band setup like DT and DP, keyboardist are the hardest to find.
Vocalist you can find them a lot, but those really good ones .. probably 1 out of 5.

 

[eggmoneer]

Before you pick up the drums, you already know - the drummer is almost never the leader. It is difficult to lead the band from behind the drum kit. Think about Dave Grohl who formed his own band. He switched instruments!

How about a musician called "don henley" let's hear your opinion about him and his role.

 

[centralcatchment]

How about a musician called "don henley" let's hear your opinion about him and his role.

Post #6 of this thread.

In any case the fact is that you have given me only one example.

 

[Tenfingers]

Bassists used to be the hardest to find, but nowadays like no longer the case! lol, nowadays drummers are hard to find.

 

[centralcatchment]

Oboe player. One of the most difficult instrument to play, let alone play well.

Andy Mackay from Roxy Music? But Roxy Music is Roxy Music - weird and brilliant.

Reality for oboe players is that very few bands want or need them. "Hard to find" also depends on demand, not only supply. For all you know there could be a surfeit of oboe players. Wonder why, but in rock music it is only drums, bass, guitar and occasionally keyboards. In jazz it is only drums, bass, sax, trumpet. Seems like other instruments are not important. What happened to cowbell?

 

[Cheez]

Well, I thought the thread mentioned about "regardless of genres". If we disregard genres...that's oboists - oboe being one of the hardest instrument to play! And yes, we do use oboe quite a bit in contemporary music, although bombthebasses is right that the keyboard usually replaces a real oboe. But then, a keyboard can basically replace every single instrument.

About the use of instruments in various genres (like what you mention, rock music), the choice is really dependent on creativity. Granted, an oboe (un-amplified) will be too soft in a loud rock band. But the reverse argument can also be true - it's not used (or tried to be used creatively) because oboe players are so rare. People use all kinds of instruments cross-genre creatively. 100 years ago, nobody can imagine a violin being used in a rock band, or an erhu being used in a pop/contemporary setting. Perhaps the reason we are not seeing certain types of instruments being used creatively enough is basically because they are rare.

Also in jazz, it's more than just the instruments you mentioned. There's clarinet (used quite often), trombone, vibraphone, among many other instruments. I would be really interested to see people trying to use Chinese instruments in jazz. Why not? And the challenge - a didgeridoo in a rock band, anyone? (another difficult instrument to play).

 

[centralcatchment]

Of course there's more than just those few instruments. But sometimes you do get instances where people start off with plenty of instruments (ie Louis Armstrong jazz) and by the time you get to bebop, there's mainly drums / bass / piano / 2 horns left. No more clarinet, no more banjo, no more trombone. And the other reason why all these other instruments fade away - once they stop being part of the main band, the bandleader no longer writes stuff for them. In rock, they discovered that guitar / bass / drums is enough for most purposes.

Or when you become even more extreme, you get music assembled from samples by DJs. So it's just "two turntables and a microphone" and no instruments. And add to that: music is being assembled together from smaller and smaller budgets all the time.

What do you get with fewer instruments: the music gets a little shittier. But the melody, the bassline, everything is still there. Case in point: the original version of "Hallelujah" by Leonard Cohen. Shitty synthesizers and everything, but a great song is a great song and eventually people will know that. Creativity is not only about finding newer combinations of instruments. Yes, in our modern world there is more scope for blending of different combinations of instruments, but there is also an opposite dynamic at work, where people also find out the minimum requirements and gravitate there.

 

[parablue74]

Good players are not hard to find.. just hard to keep..