Tube Amp Rant

[benwen]

Ok, had an experience (selling to someone) which wasn't too good.
Tell me this:
1. What tube amp remains noiseless and quiet upon turning it on and turning up it's volume? Are there any?

2. If you need to touch the strings to stop a hum/buzzing or any metal part of the amp, isn't that normal? Down to interference from lights/power sources or even just the 60 cycle hum of scs? Isn't that so?

3. Again with intereference - it is true that when you move about in a room, there are areas where the background noise of a working amp is lower than in others right? Down to interference again? Yes?

In all these things, is it truly down to amp fault? I doubt it.

Lemme know if I'm wrong. I don't know THAT much about tube amps. I took the amp back from the buyer after his complaints about buzz because I truly felt something was very wrong. The problem mentioned seemed like a grounding issue (so nautrally I thought it was due to the 2 pin plug and suggested a conversion to a 3 pin) but it turned out to be a different issue, if one can even call it an issue. It is simply a tube amp in operation, in an environment where so many things can cause some form of interference or amp noise through the guitar. Also, the noise diminishes as one moves from one place to another. Of course, standing with your guitar right smack in front of or a little higher than the speaker will not do wonders for feedback noise or sounds through the amp. Is this not so? If I'm wrong please correct me, and I'll make an apology at ever having brought this up.

For those in the know of what happened, yes, I believe - after giving the amp a thorough check - that, more than not, it was a case of buyer's regret more than anything. I could be wrong, yes, but that's the way I feel after checking through the amp again and looking at the 'issues' raised.

The one thing that gave it away was the mentioning that "touching a metal part of the amp made the buzzing stop" - paraphrased, but it means the exact same thing.

Oh yes.. One last thing. If you play the guitar sitting in front of the amp (facing it's speaker) around 1-3 feet away, there'll be some feedback buzz in the amp no?
And if you wanna return an amp, wouldn't you do so with the tubes the buyer left in them instead of replacing the tubes (with the stock ones) and throwing the MORE EXPENSIVE ones into a bag with NO Protection?
:?

 

[Weiht]

On the hum n noise that stops when u touch the metal part of the amp, most likely ur amp still runs on 2 pin plug. U can solve in by changing it to 3 pin socket, to ground the hum. Its a grounding issue.

To noe if it the amp that is giving the bad hum, or its ur setup (pedal chain, pup, guitar badly grd), switch on ur amp without any input. By this method u will noe if the hum of the amp is terrible. Or a case that u cascade too many od/distortion pedals, or ur pups squeel due to bad wax or something, maybe cables too.

OF course, u so near amp play esp with single coils, n if u r facing the amp, sure got hum or feedback rite!!! Unless u tell me that even playing clean setting got v v bad hum.

But like wat i mentioned, since is the amp thats current in dispute. ON the amp, without any input., n play ard with the setings like eq n vol. U shld be able to tell if the bad hum is from the amp, or the guy's setup is plain crappy.

Is ur amp a vintage tube amp? mite be the caps need change.

 

[Weiht]

If u play single coils, sure got hum one. Unless u buy noiseless ones. But there is still the 60 cycle hum.

Also does the hum all come out even when playing clean? Must be he cascade many od/dist pedals together lah... Sure noisy mans.

As for the grding issue, if ur amp is alr 3 pin plug. Then the grding issues shld be from ur guitar, or maybe his adapter to power up the pedals r 2 pin still. One way is to change the direction of the 2 pin plug into the power pt.

GO test the amp lah, without the input. By then u shld noe if its the amp problem or not. But there will be some noise lah, but its shld be forgive-able

let us noe

 

[benwen]

Weiht, I'm the one selling the amp. I had problems with the buyer. Who kept the amp for 3 days before calling me to say that it buzzes badly and it goes away after touching the chassis. He was insistent that a 2 pin to 3 pin conversion wouldn't solve it - fine, I thought, since I don't have an electronics background. And it was a small matter. But then testing it at home, it was really due to interference IMHO, at least that's what the buzz he was referring to was, even on the night he tested it. No amp fault. Moving from place to place and even facing and moving the guitar further away from the amp and the speakers made a world of difference.

My amp's new. Blues Deluxe Reissue. I have tried it and tested it after taking it back and refunding the money to the person. Without any input, there is NO HUM OR BUZZ.

He tried it without any pedals, just guitar > amp. AND I must add that he was playing the guitar at near full volume, sitting right in front of the amp and with the amp's volume cranked to between 5 - 7. Obviously with your guitar cranked up you'd expect a certain degree of 'extraneous' noise from the amp. According to the person, when trying out another tube amp in a store, he didn't experience any such sounds. When I think about it now, I seriously doubt he had the exact same settings for amp and guitar volume. Definitely had to be lower, seeing as it's just not right nor would it be comfortable to be playing THAT loud in a store. I'm just spitballing here though - what say you?

 

[daryl]

You should adopt a no refund policy. It's the buyer's responsibility to check the product before he buys it.

 

[benwen]

yea in hindsight I should have. The guy even asked "Why can't you refund me?". To which a "I've committed the money already" did not suffice. I even offered to pay for the amp servicing, but he kept saying how he did not know who to bring it to blah blah. Gave him a name, but he said it was too far to travel. Didn't even really bother in my opinion. So I thought what the heck, just take it back - it might have been a real or genuine problem. Little did I know.

Anyway, two amps (for the time being) to run in stereo for a while.. :?

 

[jeremyrozario]

not to be a bitch or wad, but in singapore THERE IS NO F^&*ING 60 CYCLE HUM!!!

its 50 cycle, because our mains run at 50Hz :lol: :lol: :lol:

anw most 2nd hand buyers are dumbf^&*s, i juz wasted 10 sms to deal for a $15 gig bag, its realli upsetting sometimes

 

[benwen]

hahaha..sorry about that. ok 50 cycle hum..Good point jeremy!

 

[jupzones]

You should adopt a no refund policy. It's the buyer's responsibility to check the product before he buys it.-daryl

i recently bought an amp which had a really bad humming and buzz and volume fluctuations, like the volume would dip at high volumes then go back to the same volume, but when i tested the amp it didnt have such problems, only when i got home.

so naturally i contacted the seller and this is what he said " why don't you use the $50 discount i gave you, to fix the amp"

amazing some of the things people can say right.

anyway i didn't reply because i know regardless of how much i push him, he won't do anything about it, i didnt even ask for a refund. i just told him about the problem and that's the first thing he said.

imagine it from the buyers point of view, he drops 1K plus on an amp, of course he wouldn't expect this kind of problems.( if the problem really is not a problem and the buyer is just being rediculous then it is his fault)

so to daryl, this 'no-refund policy' you have is something i feel strongly against.

i'm not saying sellers should refund buyers all the time, i just think they should show a little compasion when it comes to these kind of things and maybe work out a solution.

this is why i applaud the thread starter on offering to pay for repairs, i really do.

good luck benwen on sale of your amp.

 

[daryl]

i understand your situation jupzones... i've refunded some buyers before cause they claimed that there were 'faults' in the stuff i was selling i didnt tell them about beforehand. and i feel really conned cause i'll very nicely refund them and it will turn out that there's nothing wrong with the item.

there's a certain risk, i guess, whenever we buy secondhand stuff.

 

[jupzones]

yeah man there's always the risk, but what to do man. getting secondhand stuff is alot cheaper than new

 

[Weiht]

Hi bewen,

1stly, i dont know of any guitar shop that lets u try their tube amps!!! Since they r expensive n require more maintenance. UNless u r seriously gg to buy, i doubt many wld let u test them. Im not saying there is none, I believe g77 has the VS amps, n looks like u can test them.

But as a standard, not many wld let u fiddle with them. N even if they do, no one wld let u crank the amp loud!!!

Now, another thing is this... If u gg to play the guitar that loud thru the amp, n sit so near the speakers, of course there wld be noise man. Esp if he is using some crap stock single coils. My previous epi lp stock pup squeel like crazy, n they were HUMBUCKERS(HUMCANCELLING)!!!

ok, now u have the amp with u right. Does it have the problems???

Also, usually i sell amps, i make them come down my place n test it until they happy... u can ask edo83 abt this when i sold him the JCM800. N when u demo it, allow them to "abuse" the amp, play with all the settings n all, test all the knobs for noise. I let Edo try the amp at the sweet spot, WHICH IS DAMN LOUD!!! but onli for a while, cuz we wld be deaf after it. He brought down his stuff n pedals, played with it for like an hr or more maybe.

Refund wise, im pretty ok. I always tell them what the problem is, n also make them test it first. If they spot realli got prob, i make them tell me withing the next day. But they keep it 3 days alr, i cant be certain that they didnt spoil it rite? N i dont refund cuz u dont like it, or find it dont match u...
Also, if i sell tube amps that r aged, i also tell them to expect that these r not maintained for a while. U want hassle free, buy SS amps. U want less hassle, go buy new tube amps. U want mojo n the novelty of owning a vintage amp, then expect these maintenance issues.

If u meet a prick, then realli suay lor. its also something we as 2nd hand buyer/seller have to accept. Not every deal goes as smooth as u like. There r ppl who sell things they noe anytime will give way, so faster cash out. N there r buyers who refund cuz they dont like the sound..

I hope u find a gd outcome to ur situation

 

[benwen]

True. Thanks all for the feedback. Lesson learnt I guess. :roll:

Hehe weiht, many shops do allow you to test the tube amps. You just have to ask. It's not some big thing to test tube amps. =) Cheers!

 

[subversion]

agree- G77/ swee lee/ Davis let you try their tube amps... :roll:

 

[suckasucks]

might be just a loose/bad tube. and if the volume is dimed, you sit near the amp sure got feedback what, look at how hendrix controls the feedback, stand right in front and hump the guitar...

 

[gjkung]

maybe someone experienced should have a workshop on maintaining tube amps.

If I'm thinking of getting a tube, I wouldn't mind spending 20 bucks on a little lecture on how to maintain them, that way everyone knows what's happening, no more disputes.

++ to they stuff said about different environments, the amp I tried at sweelee warehouse sounds half as good as the same model in the showroom, I've yet to understand why, bad cable and 2pin-plug has been pointed out, what else could be the matter?

 

[suckasucks]

^one prob has newer or more seasoned tubes probably. same cabs and speakers?

 

[trianglebiscuit]

old tubes? shitty cabs?

 

[Indigo_blues]

my dad's a retired electrical engineer with tons of tube experience. Pm me if you need help fixing any spoilt tube amps. So far he's fixed my old 1969 Twin Reverb - brought it back to life from dead, and kennethc's hotrod deville which was giving him problems. He's also fixed a Reverend Kingsnake before(brought back from dead). We are in the midst of fixing up a Ceriatone tweed deluxe kit too..

cheers.

Kevin

 

[JE]

it sounds like an input grouding problem to me. make sure the wire/solder at the input jack are good. but BE CAREFUL :!: VERY HIGH VOLTAGE :!:

to make sure the problem is input/preamp related, plug out the preamp tube (12ax7s) and crank the amp to max, listen to any hums. if there is nothing wrong, then the power section is fine.

then you put back the preamp valve, without the guitar input, crank the amp to max again to see if the hum comes back. if yes, you might have a bad tube (you can try by tapping it with a chopstick..). if not. it's VERY LIKELY the problem is with the input jack. a loose jack does not ground well and can lead to hum problems.

there are other parts of the amp that can go wrong, but since you didn't mod it ( assumed), these are the likely problems. i have modded quite extensively a tube amp, and it's fun to do it urself.

IMHO, u should always use a 3pin plug for tube amps.. 400V is no joke. i for one don't want to be the missing grounding wire :? (amp -> guitar -> string ->hand ->ground...) and again :BE CAREFUL :!: VERY HIGH VOLTAGE :!:

to starter: my tube amp is DEAD QUITE even when maxed.. (noise wise)