singapore music blog "coffee & cigarettes"

[ellenshane]

hi all, Coffee & Cigarettes (not the movie!) is a music blog based in singapore. its aims are to promote music writing in singapore, share the music we love by providing mp3s for a limited time, and to create a community that has a common passion for good music. check us out at http://coffeeandcigarettes.blogspot.com

if u are an indie band/artiste and would like to share ur music with us, please send me an email and ur mp3s to casualpoets@gmail.com

we listen to everything we are sent and if it's any good, we'll write abt it and share it with our readers. see u in the music!

 

[RoRK]

It would be very appropriate that you introduce yourself before you assk for contributions. That is a given should anyone ask for something - yah??

Secondly, your site erroneously mentions the following -
the inevitable disclaimer:
all mp3s are for sampling purposes only. if you like the music, support the musicians & go out & buy a copy of the record.

Do you even know what sampling means???

In all honesty, you sound like a poor/bad joke. Give one reason why I or anyone else should take you seriously when you seem to want to stay in the dark and even have the audacity to provide poor/misleading information on your Website.

I tell you truthfully that the day you learn to respect musicians before you respect their music is the day you become a better human being.

Cheers
RoRK

 

[Narcoleptia]

wow harsh

 

[sage]

:| That -is- harsh, RoRK. It seems the nortoriety of your active, highly regarded opinions in the forum thus far precedes you..

I do believe it's highly likely that ellenshane was referring the term "sampling" as a verb, not a noun. You might want to back that line up with a search through dictionary.com ..

Regardless, I don't think it's very nice of you to discredit the idea.. picking on misconstrued definitions is one thing (I'm sure we understand that you are extremely well-versed in the music lingo), proceeding to speak against the idea with regards to the thoughts of every musician here is another. I wouldn't take the idea as a form of disrespect, speaking as an ongoing songwriter myself.

In all honesty, I have completely missed your point of disrespecting musicians. I'm sure you are aware that us musicians are nothing without the support of an audience, which is what, I would think, this blog would encourage? Perhaps you would like to elaborate on this offence you seem to regard so strongly?

Truthfully, I do not understand your right to disregard someone's worth of a "better" human being as being someone on your intellectual terms. Pardon my offence, if I have caused any..


I think it's a great idea, no matter how small the effort. Individual songs (not full albums, mind you) are being distributed to audiences at the convenience of an updated blog. It's interesting, also, to see that the music appears to be of a mix of genres. Good luck to the blog, and I hope to see it going.

 

[RoRK]

First off, notoreity is subjective; it is pertinently based on one's POV. Secondly, if you had gone the aforementioned URL, you would have noticed that there has been a change in the site's current URL. That to me is joke. It shows that this person isn't serious about his/her efforts - they would have provided the proper URL in their initial post.

I see nothing but egotiesm at work here. And nothing for the musician only something for the music.

We need quality and not quantity. I have nothing against the idea - you got me wrong there. I am totally against any TD&H wanting to ride on other's work without having any respect for the people who create the works that this person purports to want to support.

Sampling is music terms is sampling in a musical sense. If the post was not music related, I would have given the necessary slack. But what I saw lacked professionalism or even common courtesy.

Again, we don't need quantity but quality. Dude, sometimes, you have to know when to draw the line between good intentions and false pretense. Again, all this person has to do is to make a more concerted effort and have more respect for the artist than the art.

Cheers
RoRK

 

[ellenshane]

wow, that was a really, really unexpected and weird reply.

firstly, the only reason i'm asking for contributions is to do my own small part in helping to spread and promote good local music. u make me sound like i am going to take all these contributions and sell them and make money off them. i can assure u these are not my intentions and will never be.

secondly, i do know what sampling means. in case u're wondering, sampling does not just have merely one meaning, specifically the one in the context of music. the mp3s on my blog are meant to give a taste of the music of a specific artiste/band and i encourage all my readers to go out and buy cds of the musicians they like -- thats what i mean by mp3s are for sampling purposes only (sighs i seriously dont know why im wasting my time explaining something as trivial as that).

also, i don't understand why u seem to think that i'm trying to "stay in the dark". i merely didnt disclose my full name, my age, my gender, which school i go to, etc, but really is all that necessary? all u have to know is that i'm a singaporean, and that i love music and that this blog is my way of sharing this love with others.

oh and since u mentioned abt the change of url - u can read abt why i changed the url on the blog, but seriously, this is my blog, i can change its url anytime, so why are u taking it so seriously??? (by the way, the new url is http://grassrootspopmovement.blogspot.com)

if this were egotism at work, i probably wouldnt post any of other ppl's music. i'd just post my music up. i also hope u won't so clearly separate the artist from his work. u mentioned that it's "nothing for the musician only something for the music". isn't the music an essential part of the musician? isn't a musician's music in a sense an extension of his self? i don't see how u can separate that. if u read my blog (u probably didn't), u'd know that i don't just throw in a bunch of mp3 links. i try to provide commentary and some useful links to the musician's website or myspace page. i want to get their music out there. thats all im trying to do.

oh well, i think it's futile trying to explain so much anyway. if u really think this blog is such a bad idea, simply don't visit. i'd appreciate it too.

 

[RoRK]

Dear ellen, I know that you're a student. It's all over your post - read that in between the lines.

Nothing against that over here. But I am concerned that you really need to know what it is that you're doing. Do what you want, no one can stop you. All I am asking from you is that you put more thought into it and have a heart for musicians and not necessarily the music. I didn't sense that at all.

And I didn't assume that you were going to sell other people's music - never crossed my mind. But I was concerned on the 'sampling' word used. It inevitably gives others the right to sample the music and NOT listen to the music. If what you meant was 'to listen' to the music, then word it accordingly. When it comes to intellectual property, one really has to be mindful of the actual word(s) used. Trust me on this. You really do not want to inadvertently sell-out any one of your contributors.

Again, ellen, go for it, you may end up doing some good but please do it with more foresight and an understanding of the real world.

Feel free to PM me or even jesse-adams, who may have an idea as to how to word your site accordingly so that you protect your contributors where it counts.

Cheers
RoRK

 

[AgingYouth]

Hey ellenshane,

I haven't downloaded the mp3s or anything.

Can I check with you if they are the full versions of the songs? If they are or even not lah, you are in breach of copyright laws. Be careful not to tread the line lah...

 

[ellenshane]

music blogs are a phenomenon across the states and all over europe. for those concerned abt copyright infringement, pls read the following:

"Many MP3 blogs post copyright infringing material, though a fair number also post tracks with the granted permission of the artist and/or label that holds the copyright. Generally, MP3 blogs avoid prosecution by the copyright holders because even the most popular MP3 blogs have only thousands of regular visitors and post songs from independent labels, making them a much smaller concern than file sharing programs used to spread more popular music.

Because of their emphasis on out-of-print, unsigned, or indie music, MP3 blogs generally have a negligible, if any, effect on the profits of music companies, so there is little point in engaging in a costly lawsuit. Even so, MP3 blogs often include a disclaimer stating that they are willing to remove music if the copyright owner objects, and most will gladly do so. The more professional sites almost always provide a link to where the user can buy the album the music was taken from, as well as promote live shows and raise awareness of little known acts, acting as a de facto form of free advertising.

A significant number of indie music labels, promotional agencies and hundreds of artists regularly send promo CDs to MP3 blogs in the hopes of gaining free publicity. Major labels with small acts to promote have also attempted to use MP3 blogs."

 

[AgingYouth]

Yup, I download from such blogs as well. Good that you know the implications and all.

 

[sage]

?
Aye, I agree RoRK, that notoreity is indeed subjective. Hence the forementioning of your notoreity *in my opinion*, in the forum. I may be a newbie at postings, but I have been keenly reading on the forum enough to know how respected your opinions can be. Call it everyone else's, and my subjectivity then.

I "see" how ellenshane finds the effort of the site as not being serious, "considering" he / she has returned to read your discouraging banter and to explain him / herself enough to give credit to the "joke" he / she created. Uncannily, I wonder if any effort would strive if anyone encouraging and sharing their love for music had to run through your discrimination of what worth it should be to society.

"I am totally against any TD&H wanting to ride on other's work without having any respect for the people who create the works that this person purports to want to support."
I do not understand your stand to this statement, considering the author of the site is neither making money nor omitting the names of the musicians. There is also a line which read that she / he had mentioned support through buying the artists' albums if they liked what they heard.

"We need quality, not quantity."
Of what, RoRK? Music? What is your definition of quality, might I ask? And what has it got to do with the site, rather than the music that it delivers?

"Sampling is music terms is sampling in a musical sense. If the post was not music related, I would have given the necessary slack. But what I saw lacked professionalism or even common courtesy."
How extraordinarily elitist of you. I applaud...

"all this person has to do is to make a more concerted effort and have more respect for the artist than the art."
Please, RoRK, enlighten us on what sort of effort you would expect? It's much easier to help one out with suggestions than to put down an honest dream.

 

[RoRK]

Ellen, the quote you provided points to copyright infringement from the POV of record companies - major labels. But notice that there is nothing to say of copyright infringements against indie bands. To me, what it says is that because MP3 blogs provide indie music, their chances of being persecuted/prosecuted is negligible. Nowhere does it say that copyright infringements do not happen via MP3 blogs.

In short, do not take all that information as the holy grail. Again, re-word your site info so that you protect your contributors and not leave it the way it is now as it provides for a huge legal gap for IP infringement.

It may sound like I'm spooking but it's all about being professional and taking care of your contributors - musicians and as you alluded to, their music.

Bestest
RoRK

 

[ellenshane]

hi rork, pls advise on what i should include in my site info so i can escape prosecution since u're apparently very professional and knowledgeable abt such things.

 

[sage]

I'd very very much like to know as well. I suppose I should stop sharing my music to students via Multiply..

 

[RoRK]

Jesse, I'm too tired right now to answer to all your Qs. Not very professional but that's the way I am when I'm tired having to explain myself. I'm tired from having to explain myself. And Jesse, I too have provided free, IP related stuff to my students but I do make it a point to share with them the importance of IP, especially in the digital domain.

Ellen, do what you want. As mentioned, Jesse should be able to help you out. Besides, I'm a much better editor (written word) than I am a writer. You may want to visit other MP3 blogs to view their disclaimers and copyright notices for ideas.

Good luck. I really need to be writing some songs right now. To recount my thoughts from the first post, do what you want but do it well if you really love the music that MUSICIANS put out. Put stuff on your site but please provide sufficient notice on copyright ownership to the extent that you protect your contributors and yourself.

Good Luck
RoRK

 

[biopromax]

I will pass well in my argumentative essays when i read this thread.. Damn great to get tips from this.

Local music won't rise if you guys are arguing. Let each individual do their stuffs. Like it or not, their bussiness. As long as you know what you are doing is right , don't listen to other's views/opinion/arguement.

Thanks

 

[ShredPusssy]

sigh..ellenshane is just trying to promote n share music right? i believe her sampling would just simply mean listening to a short portion of the song n not the whole thing..similiar to wat u get when u wanna buy CDs online..
its a blog..how serious can a blog b..if wanna contribute then go ahead..if not then just STFU..
all this talk abt infringment laws n etc..can u honestly tell me u guys dont download songs movies n etc online? or even share scores,mp3 n movies among frds??
b4 u start advising others, mayb u shld start by looking in the mirror.

 

[unsane]

rork, whats up with the high horse you're riding? no need to shoot down the good intentions of someone,whether you think its misguided or not.

i do agree that the major label copyright content could be abit iffy though..stick to local content..they actually need the promotion.

 

[reyrey]

damn,i cant understand what RoRk saying,perhaps my england no good :lol:

 

[blueprintstudios]

actually looking at ellenshane's blog (just a quick view), I thought it was a "local music blog" but apparently I see other artistes like "sammi cheng" etc. thats where you're playing with fire because those are "big shots", y'know, label companies etc. everything is registered/copyrighted etc. I don't know much about copyright laws, but I know one thing is that you put up mp3s for download and they'll start sending law suit letters unless you got permit.

for a moment I thought this one's like musictree.podomatic.com where local bands SUBMIT their own full recordings to the podcast to advertise/expose. thats a different case because they give full permission/royalty free etc etc.

it's a different case if they DIDNT SUBMIT and the track that you put up for download (without permit) is in the "new album" they're selling. and that's screwing them over.

I thought RORK was a little too harsh at first, but after seeing your blog, i think he's alot more friendlier compared to lawsuits. you may want to reconsider your blog content or be very careful with each and every post make sure you have proper permission to back you up. and to me, thats a real tiring blog to maintain. it's cool that you want to promote music and share the pretty fireworks with everyone, but don't set yourself on fire doing it.

10¢ worth