Should Baybeats Be A Paying Gig?

[litford]

Since Baybeats 2006 is coming up, i decided to bring up a point i made in another thred.

Should we pay to attend baybeats? (or perhaps something of its calibre)

i'm a bit torn up about this, because i find that baybeats is awesome, it brings together so many local musicians, its set a bar as to what a successful festival is like, or perhaps could be like. it's starting to draw international appeal, if the cards are played right, prestige comes with playing such a festival and thus attracting a good amount of international acts sharing a stage with local musicians. can you imagine that? some of our local heros actually finally on one platform can be seen in the same light as their international counterparts.

best of all, it celebrates music for what is by making it free (not the arguable genre of music that gets pushed at the festival. but that's not the case of this argument, just meant to shut up folk with nothing useful to say like certain bands hog the spotlight. if you're going to do so, give a valid reason for such a statement. i won't go into mine today.)

either way, the reason why i brought up the point of whether we should go for baybeats is because:

are we devaluing our own local musicians by unintentionally perpetuating a notion that we don't need to support our local talents by attending free gigs all the time?

why do people still pay to go see glastonbury or bangkok 100 despite the prices? (though bangkok 100 was affordable) they want to see the bands that they love, they want to be around others who enjoy the bands they love, a festival of MUSIC is something they don't mind paying and being around and enjoying, because they think that the artistes are worth it?

so if the artistes are worth it they pay, and if they're not worth it they won't pay. so what are we saying by not going to a gig like baybeats if we have to pay say.. $30? but for that we get a cordoned off area all to ourselves and enjoy it to the payers? but in a statement we're saying that we value the local talent on our shores and we want to perpetuate a self sufficient scene where the money that people spend, goes to festival directors and indie/semi independant artistes and labels to have MORE resources to up the game and return back to the scene where for the listener, its as rewarding as it is for the artiste?

or in defence of our current arrangement, keep it free for all to enjoy? (very dischord/ian mackaye doctrine).

comments anyone?

 

[deedeeboi]

Ahh!..the famous Baybeats!..

On my point of view, I feel that performing at Baybeats is already a great thing for local musicians.I'd rather perform with very2 big crowds then having a paid gig with so little pple and yet not that "enjoying type of eniviroment).Maybe packet food for bands and drinks will be good enuff fer me..Coz i perform to enjoy!!

cheers!!

 

[unsane]

he's talking about the audience paying not the bands being paid...
i dont think baybeats is pulling in enough big names just yet to justify a full ticket price...maybe a token 10 bucks would work. besides, with the location of the place everyone could just basically watch for free.

 

[jbarks]

Hi

I don't speak for the Esplanade or any of the organisers involved (WMUM, DYL etc) but I think I can safely say that the whole point of Baybeats is to allow the public to enjoy indie music they probably wouldn't hear anywhere else on a normal day, AND for the fans of the bands involved to see them as well. When you make Baybeats a paid gig, you'd lose quite a fair bit of the people who would otherwise not have seen, say, Copeland or Brandtson play last year.

Baybeats is just *one* of the many gigs that we have here in Singapore. It's arguably one of the (if not THE) largest gigs here and hey -- if the Esplanade and VW are feeling magnanimous, let them! People pay to see Surreal or Electrico or Set For Glory, so I don't feel that Baybeats is perpetuating a "wah free good" attitude towards local music. If I like the bands on the bill, I'll pay e.g. Sonic Fest is a paid gig, and it's almost all local bands too, but people still pay to get in and enjoy.

Saying that you want a $30 cordoned-off area to yourself and other people who paid doesn't necessarily mean anything. A cordoned off area the size of the floor at Franz Ferdinand would still have lots of people pushing and shoving and complaining and I don't see it not happening for something like Baybeats. I know I said that you'd lose lots of people if you made it paid, but I think lots of girls would scream for Copeland anyway.

I believe the bands that play enjoy playing for Baybeats not just because it's Baybeats or it's a paid gig for them, but also because they love performing. If they didn't, they wouldn't be doing free gigs for charities or whatnot.

Sorry if this seems a bit disjointed; I'm on 2 hours of sleep and a bit cranky right now.

$0.02

 

[Narcoleptia]

Do the tickets include 2 free drinks?

 

[litford]

yes, i do agree that with the current baybeats arrangement, keeping it free is definitely the way to go. agreeing with superkicky's point that giving widespread exposure to show the rest of singapore the kind of music you DON'T get to hear on the radio.

and i do believe he's right because the Esplanade (for now) and all its other organisers (WMUM, DYL, Wallwork... etc) are manigmous and are giving our local scene a great support and boost by paying for staging, location, equipment, flying bands in, paying bands (even you!). for a scene that hasn't learnt to walk yet, this is absolutely the sort of nuturing our local scene needs to bring more attention to other forms of music, who the players are in the music and what everyone can do to help in the long run.

but perhaps one reason why i brought up the paying for baybeats bit is because of the dismal show at Sembawang Festival. i don't know what sort of backing the Esplanade has, but perhaps the funding in Sembawang just cannot match up to that sort of support and thus charged the ticket prices we've all come to love.

so the point is that can an independant (of sorts) achieve the same success that Baybeats has achieved? i believe that gig goers can show their support by helping fund such projects with ticket prices.

Baybeats is our most succesful festival to date, i was wondering whether building upon that existing model whether it would help support our independant music scene (in an ideal world, the funds go to the support of more local music and building the baybeat stage in an international arena, not to say paying the extra car of an executive in a funding body).

in conclusion, it's great that Baybeats is what it is today, i believe many sacrifices have been made and lots of support has gone into this. my question then is, can Baybeats (or something else?)enter an international arena like Bangkok 100, even further, Reding, Big Day Out, Glastonbury? if you have the same aim, how would you go about it? lets think deeper than getting paid, or whether people will come, and discuss the mechanics and the cultures of why we go for gigs, what has attributed to the success of Baybeats so far, what resulted in the turnout failure of Sembawang, was it the bands, the support, the fans..? What is the culture today of the singaporean gig goer?

cool guys! keep it up, would love to hear from more of you -)

 

[Audrey Fenghuang]

the problem is the audience is not developed. (generally speaking) indie music is music and music is art and art has value. value is measured by money and honestly, how much value the baybeats audience would attach to the fest would depend on the way the organisers market it. this is in the case of them putting a price to it. seeing that the poll currently stands at 77% of people not willing to pay, id say theres a really long way to go.

 

[danilo]

How to be free? Sembawang fest was a paying gig and many people complain. Ended up to be poor turnout.

However I won't mind to pay to see the likes of Love Me Butch, Buddhistson, Brand New Sunset. Not the majority though..

 

[Audrey Fenghuang]

you have to understand that sembawang fest sucked. the programming, the ticketing, the marketing and the general organisation was all bad. the mere fact that it was supposed to be modelled after woodstock but took place in a housing area was rubbish.

there was absolutely no thought put into the sequence of bands, the bands were good but werent marketed to their advantage, i heard from reliable sources that some visiting bands werent even given a means of transport, and it was definitely way way overpriced consdering most of the headliners were not currently well known here. the cheap 10 dollar tix they sold was a desperate but redundant attempt at preventing major losses. ...

its a different story when an event is badly planned.

 

[Panopticon-3]

you have to understand, that asking singaporeans to pay for something is like asking a baby to give up his candy

 

[imcorn]

Singaporeans wun pay to watch other Singaporeans unlike its Stephanie Sun or someone else who is super famous and popular.. local bands just don't get the same kind of exposure and support that local pop stars get.. plus the fact that overseas acts seem to have more of a 'wow' factor abt them that makes pple want to pay big $$$ to see them

but it doesn't mean i wun pay $$ to watch local acts though i wish we had a 3-day music festival similar to Woodstock that has local acts as well as big name acts all over the world.. and all the Padang!! haha.. that would be awesome if it does happen.. 8)

 

[jbarks]

you have to understand, that asking singaporeans to pay for something is like asking a baby to give up his candy

Nvm, Lau Lee give you $300 you take $100 and use for Coldplay later on

local bands just don't get the same kind of exposure and support that local pop stars get..

Too true. Remember that girl who returned an Electrico album after liking it because she found out they were Singaporean? Typical behaviour. You can scream for Copeland but you don't want to dig Electrico. I don't get it but nvm.

I feel that Baybeats has everything it needs to go international except for 2 things: 1, Oasis/The Killers/etc are already way too big to do an "indie" gig like Baybeats. Comparing Brandtson and Oasis is like comparing apples to oranges, and I'm thinking here that the target markets are quite different. Baybeats is already international; it's just that the bands that come from elsewhere aren't as big (in relative terms) as the bands that come for BDO or BKK100.

Baybeats is known as (correct me if I'm wrong here) SEA's biggest indie-rock festival, so I'm guessing that throwing bands in like Oasis/U2 etc would pretty much cancel out the indie bit of it. Oh well.

 

[madmonkeykungfu]

I actually enjoy Baybeats as it is now, being free that is.

my take is, if Baybeats becomes a paying ala commercial event, there might be a possibility that profit or ticket sales become too much a consideration for the organisers to let new and lesser known local musicians play. Who knows it might end up having lesser local bands and more foreign ones instead.

I like the freeness of it all now, attending this music event without many expectations, and occasionally having pleasant surprises on local music I end up liking.

 

[azlyjacaz]

Let's put it this way,

would you pay for concert tickets to a band you haven't really heard much about? no right?

yeah its showcasing indie music to the public thus with free events like this there be more exposure.

the paying part should only come in small post-baybeats gigs so at least the public know what they are all about and would pay to see them on their next gigs.

 

[litford]

i think not paying for baybeats for now has definitely raised the profile of local bands and other forms of music to the general public in the past few years, and will continue for the next few years.

however, as musicians and participants in our scene, are we going to always rely on the funding of the esplanade? (or even the ministry of arts, i don't know who forks out the cash for baybeats.. it would be nice to know though) because what happens if people in charge deem baybeats not important (a what if scenario), will it crumble to pieces because there is no more funding anymore?

i will definitely enjoy baybeats being free for what it is, and i applaude it for being so, but i'm also interested in what happens perhaps 10 years down the road.

in response to madmonkeykungfu's statement about over-commercialisation and not having enough spots for local musicians (and regional even), i agree that it is a possiblility and it's going to take a hell of goodwill and support of the arts to maintain at least a balanced line-up of local and foreign bands. and also, that perhaps for our local bands, its also not just dominated by the best all the time (we've all played soccer in groups and one group seems to dominate right?)

but definitely having the best play is important because i believe it should up the standards our any local scene.

and to azyljacaz, it's true, i would not pay for concert tickets to watch a band i don't like. but hopefully a festival will have a slew of bands, perhaps one i would like, and if it is supposed to be a festival of 'good music', i think that's the appeal for attending somethinhg like baybeats as well.

plus its a festival setting, its different from a concert, you go there with your friends, hang out, mosh around and enjoy everything in a gorgeous outdoor setting (maybe) and kick back to enjoy a celebration of music for the whole day. (maybe even more!)

if any of us ever had the oppurtunity to play for baybeats (i havent), but the festival has done so much to support US, shouldnt we in the future learn to support them?

the health of our scene depends on us, and i think monetary support is of significant importance for organisers as well as bands. not doing it fully commercially, but at least as independants, we can still hold day jobs, and still have a rewarding hobby that we can put out good records, play good shows with good equipment and really raise our own standards as a scene.

i think it will also perpetuate and encourage future gigs or festival directors, because if we as gig goers are paying a fair amount (ideal for both organisers and gig goers), because baybeats cannnot put every local band on stage, it has to come on smaller events (like stasis or subc2000.. i remember that). i've attended a few stasis event, and i always think they are marred by bad sound, and the stress that the organisers face because of monetary constraints, im just saying we could make some jobs easier and still benefit ourselves as players if we develop a responsibility toward certain cultures like paying a fair price toward music.

* i do borrow a lot of ideas about fair paying for music from the Ian McKaye philosophy. you don't ever pay for more than $10 for a fugazi gig if i'm not mistaken. and that music is for everybody.

** i also borrow my ideals about independant music and sharing of it from www.downhillbattle.org. i hope to not see baybeats controlled by ONE funding body making all the decisions. by spreading it across the plain with several independants, and even for gig goers, if we have to start paying, some of the power spills over to us, because now they will want to meet our needs as well.

but paying for baybeats as an idea is all done for the betterment of our local scene ant not for monetary profit. (in an ideal world)

 

[jbarks]

Baybeats is sponsored by the Esplanade and Volkswagen There could be more but these two are the ones I see everywhere.

 

[dewstar]

i agree that singapore audiences still have a long long long way to grow and develop. Baybeats can remain free for 4 - 5years but if you want to have better bands, big names then it is time to start paying (minimal i guess for the start) to support the local bands and festival by helping the organizer to carry on with the festival.
with all the money going out and nothing coming in, i doubt Baybeats can last long being free. well, there is no free lunch in this world.