Settings in jamming studio

[namelessone]

I wanna know how a band should sound like in the jamming studio
must vox bu the loudest among all?
followed by guitar
bass
and drums ?
how is the settings of instruments supposed to be volume wise
thx

 

[blueprintstudios]

bass and drums softest (unless your drummer hits like a wimp) <- these are usually the easily loudest instruments.
then guitar
then vocals.

the bass must not be too bassy to drown the drums-kick
the bass must be "middish/trebly" enough to cut through the guitars but not drown the vocals.
the guitar must not be too loud to drown the vocals and allow the bass's mids and the drums-kick to hear the attack (then again if still too hard to achieve, your drummer may be hitting the kick too soft.)
then the vocals must cut through all.get your vocalist to face the vocal PA speaker (to hear himself) but stand away from it to avoid feedback.

the vocalist try avoid wrapping your hand around the mic grill as usually that creates feedback. bring your own mic sponge filter for hygiene. if feedback keeps occuring, learn how to play with the jamming mixer's EQ. if feedback doesn't occur much, don't mess with the mixer, usually it irritates the jam studio owner.

if you're recording your jam session with an MD / mic etc. place it facing half the vocal amp/half guitar amp and abit close to the drums (but don't put it on the floor to pick up the kick, recording will distort easily, more on snare height) and away from the bass (usually bass will naturally be picked up)

my... 2000-2001 experience + kicked out of aljunied weelee a few times ¢ worth.

 

[namelessone]

thx. this should i bet!

 

[blueprintstudios]

let me know if it works for you,then I can request as a sticky thread.

 

[namelessone]

I'm jamming this week. i'll post whether it works.=)

 

[Godspeed64]

if feedback doesn't occur much, don't mess with the mixer, usually it irritates the jam studio owner.

Lol!
Anyways good tips bro.. Will help all those out there who are new to jamming!

I got one tip.. Louder doesn't mean better! There are times you have to turn down the volume to achieve a balance between the instruments..
And guitarists shouldn't scoop their tones.. You're the "mid-range" provider.. Killing off these frequencies will make you useless in a live situation.. Scooped tones are only practical in recording directly to a com or something..

 

[blueprintstudios]

ah yes,how could i have missed out, louder does not mean better. if the cymbals and distortion guitars are too much for your vocalist to practise his/her jam despite bringing down the volumes already. then ask him/her to buy a pair of earplugs,that usually filters out the distortion guitars / cymbals and he'll be able to hear guitars/bass/drums + own vox clearly,bring up the vocal mic volume from there.

earplugs almost acts as a "mid-midhighs-highs" EQ down kinda thingy. and most impt, prevent your grand children from doing the
kid:"hi gramps"
you(old): "...."
kid:"GRAMPS!"
you : "HAR?"
kid: HAR LAMPAH!!!

on you heh.a.k.a hearing loss.

if you got more money than buying earplugs, you can go to hungbrothers at simlim sq , buy one of those "Rolls" personal monitor. then you'll be able to hear your own vocals and increase the gain without feedback in the comfort of your own world via headphones.

 

[Noein]

problem is the acoustic volumes for drums... =( my drummer too chor lor liao, lol.

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

And guitarists shouldn't scoop their tones.. You're the "mid-range" provider.. Killing off these frequencies will make you useless in a live situation.. Scooped tones are only practical in recording directly to a com or something..

Liddat means you're either Steve Vai, Satch, Malmsteem or Paul Gilbert liao lah... Haha when vocals are singing away u go try "provide" mids see what happens! :twisted:

Guitarist should scoop mids for sustainin/background rhythm, only the leads/fills should pump mids but be modest about it unless its a full fledge solo!

 

[Godspeed64]

Really meh? I used to like scooped tones but they are hell inaudible in live situations..
Pumping the mids is important IMO.. Afraid you'd drown out the vox?
That's why it's important to strike a balance..
Vocals should always be the loudest in the mix, followed by the lead guitarist (if it is intended to be loud)..

This has worked for me, perhaps the opposite may have worked for you instead.. :mrgreen:

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

Rhythm should remain subtle when there's vocals ma... unless your band like mine got sucky vox la, then drown him out when ever he opens his mouth! haha!

otherwise, something like this would be good (not that great though, a lil too much emptiness in the mids imo):

Sonata Arctica | Official website

notice the guitars are heavily scooped during the rhythm. For a good mix rhythm guitars should not be above bass or drums and should allow ample space for vocals to fill the mids. When there's a need to cut through, mids will do well, but it might interfere with vocals. A common way to do those very cool harmonies would be to make the lead have more mids while the secondary lead have less. Settings/frequencies of mids are quite sensitive when it comes to mixing. If we pump too much mids then the vocals would automatically be "secondary" to listeners ears which shouldn't be la! haha guitarist must control ego!!

 

[Noein]

sonata arctica ftw! love their san sebastian and wolf and raven

 

[blueprintstudios]

ok , there's abit of misconception. in sound control, there isn't just "low/mids/highs" , we don't talk about numbers like 0-18000Hz whatever, but more layman terms.

so in detail lets go into "Subs/lows/lowmids-mids-highmids-highs"

you see if average non-deep voiced human voice takes up ABIT of lowmids- then mids-highmids-highs

the lead guitarist is sharp toned he takes up decent amount of mids,highmids and highs.but little low-mids with the notes/solos he's playing

then the rhythm guitarist takes up more lowmids-mids-and abit of high mids

and the bass earlier on I say need abit of mids + highmids twang to hear any bass riff or twang.

and then one interesting method I see Boon Studios is using is that they have a spare VOCAL microphone thrown into the kickdrum and EQed the kick in a way where it sounds SOLID in the room amplified on the PA speakers. and kick takes up sub/lows/lowmids/mids. so it won't get in the way of the "vocals" .

so there you go, now that mids are split into "3" sections. you'll see how it's still possible to blend in the guitars/bass/snare/kick/vocals nicely. the cymbals are "high frequencied" so it'll cut through naturally. your vocals's pronounciation of "SSSS H B T P" will be clearer if you increase abit of highs. but watch the feedback.

and apart from all these, there's STILL volume control, to get that balance. so experiment.

before I forget, if a jam room has 2 guitar amps, 1 bass amp, 1 drumset. and 2 PA speakers. and there's 2 vocal mics. and you only got one vocalist. choose the better microphone and TURN OFF THE OTHER IF NOT IN USE. cos that contributes to feedback which most ppl neglect.

50¢ worth

 

[blueprintstudios]

madwerewolfboy : that sonata artica video on their website is misleading. that's the "Live Recording" . the drums get noisegates, triggered. the guitars and bass is wireless probably 1 signal goes to the amps > PA speakers > audience ,and the other split signal is D.I recorded.
at times you hear abit of feedback. the only real "sound is the vocal microphone and there's also probably noise reduction processing cos the cymbals sounds abit phasey at times. that's why it sounds unrealistically clean and I can assure you no live gigs sound as clear as this. this is very mixed/polished. their live set probably quite overpowered by the cheering audience.

but nice band heheh.

 

[Hydrofly]

And guitarists shouldn't scoop their tones.. You're the "mid-range" provider.. Killing off these frequencies will make you useless in a live situation.. Scooped tones are only practical in recording directly to a com or something..

Kind of depends on your pickups really, I know my X2N is so damn middy it sounds like shit when I don't scoop it abit, and when I do, I still cut through like a knife.

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

the drums get noisegates, triggered.

Hey, I'm interested to know about this triggering method. How does it exactly work? Had something like this for a school gig before but didn't managed to ask the sound techie then.

 

[ryuxdragonx]

I play the drums. The jam room is very small. When I crash my cymbals, I can't hear the guitar anymore. Any way to improve the situation (beside playing softer which I'm already doing)

 

[blueprintstudios]

ah yes, different gear got different sound, if your case is like hydrofly's you need loads of EQ etc.

MWWBoy : triggering is like.. err.. imagine you know how live drums situation the snare mic doesn't ONLY pickup the snare? but pick up the kick/toms/hihat(especially). so this is called "mic bleed" , and most of the time live engineers use microphones that "noise gate" well and run gaters on the signal. to cut down on the bleed. in case you don't know what I mean what gate is -
tst = hihat
tak = snare
...= silence

live : tsttst-tak-tsttsttst-tak

gated : ...st-TAK!-ts.....st-TAK! (usually gates have compressors, so they increase the attack / ratio whatever to make the snare LOUDER and auto-fade off the hihat.)

so now, on triggers, sometimes if the song has alot of "ghost notes" which will screwup the "gate" or the guy simply just want pure snare sound no mic bleed. and rely on triggers. so when you mount triggers on the snare (for e.g)
trigger > the piezo-whatever thing picks up the vibration/hit on the snare > to a sound module (that generates whatever snare sound you want)
again :

(TUNK! = professionally recorded killer snare/killer mic/killer studio/killer mixing whatever-snare.wav)

live : tsttst-tak-tsttsttst-tak
trigger : ........-TUNK!.....-TUNK!...

sorry if i look dumb trying to explain this to you in laymans' terms. I don't know the theory on it , I just "see and understand the logic" of how it works. basically like how a guitar amp to a D.I line6 pod xt pro. this is like a real drumset to a "D.I" drums. it's electronic "drumsound" but using a real drumset.

---------------

ryuxdragonx : trecool rocks. he's got the same birthday as I am hah. anyway your case, your guitarist is probably playing too soft, if no matter how your band members have brought down their volumes and you're hitting softer to a stage it feels unnatural. try this : take toilet paper, fold it into a square, paste it (like a big PLUS sign) on the cymbals with scotch tape (use the type that's easy to peel since you're at a jam studio) hopefully it'll dampen the loud cymbal ring. try even sticking on the part where you hit! then at least if the jam studio owner kaobeh ask why you stick crap on his cymbals, say you're a hard hitting drummer or the guitars cannot hear. so dampen then no need to blast the guitar amp, later spoil his amp he need to maintain. surely you can afford scotchtape + chunks of toilet paper right?

20¢ worth

 

[MadWerewolfBoy]

Oh okay, i was suspecting something like that also, thx for explaining...

Now we know how those acrylic drumset yoshiki and mike portnoy used sounded so good live... haha

 

[ryuxdragonx]

blueprintstudio: Thx dude. I'll try that next time. Haha =)