playing the hi-hat fast.

[RudimentalDrummer]

I don't think Accenting without using too much stength is call "Cheating" in such a way.

Most drummers will use the shaft to slap on the "The Bow Of The Hats" as it creat the best sound (especially when doing open'close hats-techniques)....Lifting the sticks to create the non-accent (we are talking about this 8th-note accenting on the 1-+ only or the reverse) is logical Technically speaking...That's the only way to do a very Fast-16th-Note Accent....without too much a tention.

To play FAST 16th-Note Accenting (Using one hand) on a Song...will drain out the drummer. Too play a number of songs...is very tiring...so I don't see this Techniques...a CHEATING-TECHNIQUE......

Says who in the undestanding of Drumming that "Accenting" means "hitting hard" ...Playing loud or louder ..yes true...and accenting doesn't means too that it has to be a Rim-Shot in a sense....Ot's a technique...that's about all.

Berklee Boston USA teaches it's students to use this Techniques (I know their Reputation is - You Got Money- You Can Go In)...but no matter how?...they are ACCREDITED MUSIC SCHOOL..if not one of the Best for JAZZ...for Classic - JULIET...

Is that Cheating...NO...to each his own..It's is a Technique applicable and acceptable by many in DrummerWorld though (this include using both Hands Accenting on hi-Hats on any kind of Variation used in it's Accenting)... :lol: :lol:

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

wow thats for all the help man, these are really usefull

i will try to work on them, most of the time i use the neck of my stick to hit on the edge of the hi hats, i think its kinda wrong =.=

Many uses the Neck of the Sticks to accent the Hats Edge (I do that all the time my Bro)...because the accent is most prominent...in time the sticks chip-faster and eventually breaks too. But this is not the reason why my Sifu taught me to do using (Shaft/Tips)......

The main reason why I was taught to do using this techniques (which I tried out of course) is largely because of 2 main factor - SPEED & BETTER SOUND...

This is what I was taught and I share it with you. Of course, it's really up to your personal preference to jusdge for yourself if - it's the best way..There could be others.

 

[alvinthedrummer]

Maybe "cheating" is too strong a word to use....but what I'm trying to say is we should look at playing with the shoulder of the stick as a mean to produce a certain tone from the hats and not a mean to emphasize a note.

Look...what if I want to play a groove with all 8 notes using the shoulder of the stick (to create a certain sound to a groove) but still have accents on the crotchets? Using your method of "no-strength" emphasis will create a problem. What if your producer said,"I want you to play all hi-hat notes with the tip of the stick only but I still want you to accent the upbeats to generate a swinging feel"....we will have an issue won't we? Look, what you're saying here is that in order to be able to play fast easily, you will have to sacrifice your ability to generate certain sounds from your hats....isn't that just wrong? Everyone should be able to play fast while generating any tone they want from the hats!

Look, name any school you want....but work in the real world and you'll know why I teach the way I do. In fact, so many teachers in music universities I know actually disagrees with the written syllabus! And how many instructors in PIT (L.A.) actually uses the drum kit syllabus???? Its pathetic!

And besides....who says you can't play fast using strength (or stick height) to accent on hats?? those who came to my workshop will know that playing fast with accents and with endurance is VERY POSSIBLE! Try telling the drum corp snare drummers that they should not accent the way they do or they will slow down...they'll probably laugh their heads off!

I know no one ever said in actual words that accenting in drumming means hitting harder....but if you want to accent on the same surface with similar hitting stick surface...you will have to either increase your stick height or hit a little harder...

I play drum & bass tunes accenting on hats the way I do with no problems....and you're right...IT IS about technique! Anyways....I'm just trying to help as much as I can here...if you think my advise is wrong, then simply just ignore this post...good luck!

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Alvin...I know you grauduate with a Degree in Music....But it is Tony Zee my Sifu who taught me that...Maybe he is not from a U...like you did....But he is not wrong neither...or maybe yes the word "Cheat"...was a little hard..


No hard feelings Bro...Cheers !

 

[alvinthedrummer]

Hey, why bring up my degree? If there is a need to, let ME be the one to bring it up....

Also, why bring Mr. Zee's name up? If you truly believe in what you said, then there is no need to bring up anyone's name would you?....want me to bring up my teachers' names??

Yup, cheating is a little strong...how about "technique limitation"? It is really limiting if you can only do things one way.....no?

No hard feelings, just really sad how this new generation is still so stuck in the "Old School"....And dun get me wrong...old school is great cos I was taught by so many old school drummers too....but we should really learn to open up and look further....

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Also, why bring Mr. Zee's name up? If you truly believe in what you said, then there is no need to bring up anyone's name would you?....want me to bring up my teachers' names??

Yup, cheating is a little strong...how about "technique limitation"? It is really limiting if you can only do things one way.....no?

No hard feelings, just really sad how this new generation is still so stuck in the "Old School"....And dun get me wrong...old school is great cos I was taught by so many old school drummers too....but we should really learn to open up and look further....

As you know I'm a student Drummer...The word "Cheat" is somehow indirectly degrading Mr Tony Zee (who is my My Instructor naturally) in this manner (not intentionally I supposedby you) as it is he who taught me the Techniques (and it hurts me)...and so did I share what I've learn like what you have done so here. I believed neither is wrong..but as I said "CHEAT" is too not thye right word to used here....never did I mentioned anything about your Techniques here...I merely contribute my idea what I've learn....From an Instructor who is yes...60 years old who groom Jimmy Lee too who gave his utmost respect till todate.....Why would he "CHEAT".....Im hope you get my point here.


And yes why of course there are many Techniques applicable to a certain situation...however which particular Techniques is neither "Wrong" and is in no way a "Cheating Techniques"....just different.


Buddy Rich is still one of the Greatest Drumer Of All Times.....old school of thoughts?....I'm just currently like you in the learning process before...and yes I definetely agree with you on this that we should be opened....

No hard feelings too...you are reputated as a very good drummer (play very nice strokes) and is a very "Sharing" & "Humble" drummer...many of my good friend told me....but I see you are also very egoistic too here.

Just as I understood you, do understand me too....cheers and lets move on

 

[alvinthedrummer]

First of all, I did not "degrade" anyone. I simply used a word to describe something which to me....essentially is cheating if not seen the right way.

Ask Mr. Zee...see if he can accent on similar surface with similar playing area of the sticks....he WILL be able to! And kick arse on it too! What he is trying to tell you is probably that he likes the way the shoulder/tip technique sounds....not becos its THE way to accent on hats. Whereas you, you are implying to a fellow student that your way is THE only way to accent but it simply isn't! If you see it that way....then you are simply CHEATING others off other possible resources!

Please stop saying that there is no wrong technique.....cos you BELIEVED that there are wrong techniques! QUOTE:"This is wrong (Technically Speaking)....because one cannot do a very fast 16th note accent (using one hand) if accenting is done in this way (and most of all - it will not sound good too).......so cheers ! "

I wrote what I wrote only because I hate people implanting wrong info to others....

And please, stop getting personal with me and tell me to have no hard feelings....

QUOTE:"but I see you are also very egoistic too here. "

QUOTE:"Alvin...I know you grauduate with a Degree in Music....But it is Tony Zee my Sifu who taught me that...Maybe he is not from a U...like you did"

I am simply bringing up the fact that there are more ways to accent than one and to be a drummer with good resource, you need to know most of them.....how dare you claim that you can't play fast accented phrases the other ways and that they don't sound good??? I think you need to buy more CDs and start doing some homework!!!

Another thing, do you truly understand the word egoistic here? I am not the one here disclaiming other techniques as "Wrong"!! Or claiming to be taught by the grandfather of local drummers.....Who is the EGO now?

Anyways...i will do myself a favour and shut up....so good luck with your drumming....and I hope others don't get too locked in with "ONE" technique concepts which tend to happen alot in forum posts....be open and you will find yourself improving more ways than one! CIAO!

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

I think I'll cool it off too here, no point getting too heated up and to each his own, difference in opinion, whatever...This is a forum, arguement in exchange of words, where there is no personal touch - it happens all the time....so be it !

Let's end it here and move on....Maybe you're right (I don't know really)