playing electronic sets - your opinion please

[dmr]

I've been thinking of getting an electronic set but i've been reading all the posts and it seems from these posts that after playing on an electronic set, a drummer seems to lose the touch on an acoustic set.

so what happens if i lose the touch? do i play softer on an acoustic? or not be as flexbile?

i need all of your advice...

thanks!

 

[gambatak]

i have no clue but i was just thinking about this.
if the module and trigger used is not the very PRO, empensive kind, den u hit ahrd hit soft also produce same sound.

so when u play back on acoustic. got less dynamics, and with that of cos less funky grooves? i dunno, maybe u play for years on e kit u still get the same practie when it comes to rudiments only.

 

[wiremesh]

The diff..

I personally feel that an electronic drumkit...isn't the way to go if you have an option for an acoustic kit. You'll never get the same feel on the electronic kit compared to the acoustic, the diff sounds from an acoustic kit...the edges,the rims,the side of the rims....the snare shell...everything feels so different. I believe that dynamics,grooves and all can still be done on an electronic kit no doubt, but once u go onto an acoustic kit, u'll be missing out alot....the texture and all that stuff.....

 

[kari_convention]

but an e-kit is the best way to practice anytime and (almost) anywhere without worrying your mom/dad/gf/brother/sister/neighbour/grandfather/etc..etc yelling at you to stop playing.

just my .02 :lol:

 

[kazuki]

hey there is this ekit at musiclab which i find it really worth its value compared to kits from yamaha or others.

the cymbals are the normal cymbal pads, but the snare, and 3 toms feels like real tom. Instead of just a rubber pat there, they are actually mini, cylinder drums which gives great feel like real acoustic sets.

its drum module allows plug in of mp3 player, different sounds etc etc

its at around $1800 with bass pedal.

erm ask Alvin for more info =)

 

[QWEbie]

i own a roland td-6kv

it has got its own pros and cons for e-kits...

one that i don't really like is when it comes to hi-hat playing with the hi-hat controller. (subject to this kit td-6, those expensive ones i tried is really good, close to being an acoustic set)

its different when try to apply "live" skills onto it. Well, you can get rid of it if you have more money and upgrade that particular hi-hat to a better one.

its true that you will lose your dynamics and other "live" techniques.

Some kits like mine, the sound do vary if you hit harder/softer. I don't know about yamaha e-kits, but mine does (on all the components)

the snare is pretty impressive i must say for an e-kit. (get those mesh kits.. at least you can feel like you're buzz rolling)

er about sound issues... i did have a complain on my bass vibrations from neighbors though other than that, your family members have to get used to hearing "tak tak tak bak bak bak tok tok tok"

 

[blurred]

losing ur touch and mean alot of things. mostly u'll sound harsh, not smooth. ask a metal drummer to play a funk or jazz groove, thts wat harsh sounds like. u also lose the feel of the rebounding head which causes u to lose ur time. An example.

i had a recording gig today, and it was a jazz tune. i practiced on my little make shift practice kit it my room the nite before to get my time and tech sorted. tuned by drums up high (thanks for the tip on tunning alvin!) and started to record. guess wat i cldn't control the rebound and the dynamics of my bass drum. esp when i was switching to brushes on the snare to brushes on the cymbal. the pedal moved differently cause the batter head was so tight. this threw my time off.

by all means get the electronic kit, u can work on independence and variety of diff thing. but u have to get on a real kit in at least 50% of ur prac time. i'm talking abt prac time and not time with a band. prac time by urself.

 

[Guest]

re: Query..

Kazuki, what is the model/brand of that E-Kit?

where is this music lab located?

 

[marcdadrummer]

the cymbals are the normal cymbal pads, but the snare, and 3 toms feels like real tom. Instead of just a rubber pat there, they are actually mini, cylinder drums which gives great feel like real acoustic sets.

What kazuki meant was that this are actually SINGLE ZONE triggered pads with BLACK MESH heads.

Pros: U get the feel of an acoustic kit probably just a bit, not so much i must say.

cons:

they come in small sizes,

they are single zone triggered which means u can only hear one sound out of one pad which means u can't do rimshots etc.

General consensus of american forums say it's worth it but the heads wear off pretty quick.


So, might i suggest something for u, there's the budget way, and there's a high end way to solve ur e-kit problem.

1) Buy urself a cheap drumkit.. No acoustic value for the kit would be the best as u just need it to house the triggering.

2) Head over to the DIY section of www.vdrums.com forum.

3) read and read and read and read all of the inventions created and see which suits best for u, eventually, u see this guy named JMAN, his triggers are the cream of the crop.

4) build urself some DUAL ZONE triggers from what u read/ buy dual zone OR single zone triggers with ready built housing materials from JMAN. it shouldn't be that costly.

5) Get urself a entry level module like alesis dm5 or td3 or td6. alternatively u can go and ask JMAN to get it for u for a bit of charge. ORR u can buy urself a flagship td12 or td20 and maximise its inputs and build urself some nifty sounding drums from it!!

voila, plug and play. cheap alternative sould prolly cost in the range of that 1,800 kit with shipping and etc etc..


the good thing is, u won't loose as much feel as u are playing on a real ACOUSTIC set with MESH HEADS on it and if u get good module, it'll sound akin to a acoustic drum..

Just my $0.02 cents.

 

[marcdadrummer]

just FYI, do a google search and see the design of a REAL VDRUMS mesh pads and compare it to the DIY inventions at VDRUMS.COM forum..

they are identical almost 99%.. the 1% goes to the electronic board inside the VDRUMS pads. other than that the design is as simple as

1 cone sandwiched between a piezo, connected to a electronic board, connected to a STEREO jack, with only ONE piezo for the rim.

the JMAN trigger goes:

1 cone sandwiched between a piezo, connected to a STEREO jack with FOUR rim triggers to make an EVEN triggering for the rims.

there's a link at all the posts made by jman, do ur homework there.. EVERY SINGLE THING u need to know about electronic drums are there, from reviews to buy and sell.. but it's an american based forum. no harm done asking them, their community is small and humble... except the moderators are from hell.

 

[drumbum]

Hi dmr, I am using a yamaha dtxpress, its the 1st model but still works like brand new after 6 years. well, of cos if you are not constrained by space, neighbours and volume consideration, I would definitely recommend getting an acoustic kit. However, if you are like me where the above factors cannot be ignored, I wld recommend getting an electronic kit to practice on. Here are my list of pros and cons of using an electronic kit : *disclaimer-I love acoustic kits but here's my alternative.

Pros :
Volume is adjustable
Saves space
Offers a wide variety of sounds, customisable to your own liking e.g. for rides you have sizzle, dark rides, flat tops etc
In built metronome function + audio input jack (for mp3 players, stereo etc)
Volume depends on your strength of hitting / Dynamics
Rim shots possible on snare (dual input pad which is different from the rest of the kit)
Time of practice is not a consideration, e.g. early morning or late nights

Cons :
Snare response not as sensitive, buzz roll is difficult to achieve
Cross sticking is difficult to achieve
Feel of the snare and toms may not be realistic
Hi hat foot pedal response not completely realistic
cymbal pads do not have bell (at least for mine)


I have tried the drum pads with mesh heads and personally I do not think that they mimic the feel of the acoustic drums completely as well, so I do not think it is worth that much more. But do give them a try and decide for yourself if you really like the mesh heads or rubber pads.

One more thing, I realised that when I first transited from elec kit to acoustic kit, I tend to play a bit harder. But I have learnt to adjust my strength of hitting esp when im playing jazz or ghost notes.

Frankly, I rather spend more money on good snares or cymbals than a 10k electronic kit which you cant bring out to gigs. Im sure there are not too expensive electronic kits in the market now with more variety to choose from. Good luck with your purchase and happy drumming

 

[jesper]

I guess u win some, u lose some. Practice anywhere in comfort but u lose the touch and feel of acoustic drumsets.
I did condsider buying a electronic drum set before but i change my mind at the last moment!

 

[flam]

sorry to revive a 'dead' thread but i've been exploring the option of converting my acoustic kit into a electronic one.

the DIY idea is quite cool but i would want to purchase drum triggers for this first project. anyone knows where to buy drum triggers and mesh heads?

 

[RudimentalDrummer]

Definetely playing an Electronic Drum has a different feel from playing an Acoustic one...Even playing on different Acoustic Kit need some minor adjustment on the touch many a times (but easier of course).

I myself prefer Acoustic - I bought Acoustic because firstlt - I see so many Professional Drummers are using Acoustic Kits as compare to Electronics.

To me - The most important difference is the Rebound - so when I switch from playing Electronic to Acoustic - not easy.

Taking about Value - Electronic stuffs devalue fast - as New Technology comes up (just like Electronic Drum) - have got more gimmicks later-on - Electronic can spoil after a few years also. A 195# Acoustic Kit (as an example here) eg Gretsch Round Batch actually appreciate - This is just general not saying we must profit from selling drums.

BEAUTY - I think an Acoustic Kit really looks Beautiful - imagine all the different colours we can choose....

I would buy Acoustic - if I want Electronic - it good only for playing softer can adjust volume - other than that - not much advantage - I wonder why dont they make different colour Electronic Kit?..instead of just Black or White lah.....hor?

 

[drum_hobbyist]

RD... since you expert in marketing... why not you suggest to the manufacturers to make coloured electronic drum kit... drum sticks right now even have colourful one... :lol:

 

[marcdadrummer]

ahh... electronic kits...

the best top range electronic kits with drum shells lookalike like the real thing with mesh heads and over thousands of sound samples would be the flagship roland TD20 set...

that set can buy u a DW SATIN OIL FINISH KIT!!

so imho, electronic kits are extremely overpriced for what is worth...

btw, a dw satin oil finish kit 6 piece with 24k gold plated hardware costs a cool $10,000 8)

so.. diy is cheap... cheapest alternative is alesis dm5, NO LOCAL DEALERS SELLING THE MODULE alone***..!!! costs of module from states around 250USD... shipping add around 50 - 80 pending on size...

drum triggers are NOT CHEAP.... and mesh heads are not cheap either...

so weigh ur options before converting...

www.ezimusic.com has acoustic to electronic conversions using red shot triggers by ddrum - i think... but those buggers ain't cheap and it's only SINGLE ZONE...!!!!

MEANING U CANNOT PLAY CROSSTICK OR RIMSHOTS!! waduhh..

 

[elevenine]

as someone who successfully converted an old Pearl Rhythm Traveler into an e-kit (complete with dual-zone snare and Roland TD-6V) - and then promptly sold off everything cos i didn't like the feel - i think i can try to answer some of those questions.

first off, i do think that the TD-20 is a pretty awesome set no matter what stand you may take on the electronic vs. acoustic debate. i had the pleasure of playing a monstrous TD-20 at this guy's house when i bought over his elims a couple years back, and just the staggering amount of customization (changing the diameter AND depth of each drum!) is amazing. i doubt you'll get bored easily on a kit like that.

marc >> last i checked (years ago, hehe), Sinamex has Alesis DM5s for sale. i think they're in the 400+ price range, if i'm not wrong.

i ended up buying a TD-6V module from music123 cos i couldn't find any place here that would sell the module alone (*ahem*sweelee*ahem*). i think it cost S$800+ including shipping (via vpost, cos roland products can't be shipped overseas due to some restrictions).

IMO, don't use the redshot triggers, they're severely overpriced esp when you consider you can get all the parts you need from someplace like sim lim tower (not sim lim square). i think i spent about S$100+ in all my trips there buying various odds and ends.

i bought roland foam cones as spare parts from sweelee at sims drive, but word of warning: they aren't cheap. i think they run about S$12 apiece, if i'm not mistaken. i tried making my own 'cones' with various types of foam i found at home as well as from online hardware stores like www.mcmaster.com but in the end the roland ones gave me the best response. i bought lots of nifty materials from mcmaster.com, i just wish there was a place in singapore that sold all that. guess we just aren't very DIY people.

trigger diagrams and models can be found all over the net, just search a little. i also paid for a year's membership to electronicdrums.com which was really helpful thanks to the enthusiastic community there. what i did was i got pieces of black acrylic cut to size to use as the cross-bridges to hold the triggers (most other people use aluminium strips, but you'll realise it's easier for a novice like me to drill acrylic than metal).

don't forget rubber tubing (i got it from mcmaster.com) to line your hoops with so you don't get unwanted clacking of sticks - it doesn't affect your rimshot trigger, don't worry, hehe.

the main problem, as someone mentioned before, is the hihat, esp if you go DIY. in the end, after many unsatisfactory attempts building one with parts i could scavenge from sim lim tower, i got another DIY enthusiast to mail me his hihat controller from the US, it's an awesome design and i still have it lying around somewhere, if anyone's interested. it cost me about S$50 including shipping i think.

i still have a thick reference file on anything and everything to do with converting from acoustic to electric somewhere in my house. flam, if you're interested i could try to make a copy for you or smth.

anyway this post is getting too long for its own good. if anyone wants to know more just post here and i'll try to answer.

last word of advice: be prepared to experiment and spend lots on this project, esp if you decide to sell everything in future. i made a loss on the module, had to sell it on ebay for about US$400. but nevertheless, have fun!

edit: added in some cost figures (cos i know that's what you all wanna know!)

 

[flam]

thanks for all the advice i'll think over everything again. i'm kinda tired of having a kit that i can only look at but can't play(i live in a quiet neighbourhood).

top range electronic kits are definately out of the question. i wonder why would people even pay that much. if i had that much cash i would rather use it and do some basic sound proof then get a good kit.

i've emailed ezimusic but they have not gotten back to me. hope i get a reply soon but anyway i've seen the DM5 at sinamex before. and according to the price list on their website they do sell the module alone BUT it costs a cool $649. whatever happened to the cheap factor in that thing?

 

[elevenine]

well, the pearl RT can be converted back to an acoustic kit so you'll kinda have 2 kits in one haha..but yes, it's a real pain removing all the triggers and putting them back again.

i think ezimusic sells the hart e-kits right? the higher end models are quite comparable to roland's i think..

ouch, i definitely don't remember the DM5 being so expensive. maybe 500+ but not 600+. go there and ask for yourself, don't trust the website so readily!

IMO though, the DM5 is like, 15 years dated already. at the most, i've only heard of people getting a DM5 to trigger their kicks when playing fast double bass. i tested out the other DM5 sounds and they aren't that great. even the TD-3 is better, i reckon.

 

[marcdadrummer]

if u have a kit already.. my suggestion is to buy READY MADE TO INSTALL triggers from this guy i know at vdrums.com

jman... he makes triggers for acoustic conversions ranging from cymbals to drums...

he sell triggers for drums + triggers for cymbals... But u gotta buy roland mesh heads or aquarian magnum heads online though and mesh heads are not cheap... pearl one doesn't stand that good and their bounce is a nightmare...


http://stealthdrums.com/Home_Page.html

he has videos of his crazy kits from a PDP LXE to a acrylic kit he recently owned... he's a SUPER DIY BEING whom has LOAD AND I MEAN LOADS OF $ to experiment his ideas and develop it.. and than he goes about selling it..

he made a yamaha, a gretch, a pearl, a pdp, a dw, before and some companies even hired him to make them a gigging Acoustic EKIT!!..

so it's best u check with him... he doesn't take much for triggers though.. less than 1k for a 5 piece kit with hi hat controller and 3 cymbal triggers... dual zone OR TRIPLE ZONE!

but remember, u have to add ur purchase with a module, mesh heads.. and ur ready to E KIT!