OM: Friends Forever (mingguan)
- Thread starter mingguan
- Start date
teraslasch
New member
hi mingguan, i love this piece haha.. very nice, sounds like your ff influence mix with chinese pop song ^_^... very great song for your leaving friend, keep up the good work! 
keys, thanks for your compliment. Actually I written this song for my 2 leaving friends. I have make it a CD with some artwork (with booklet/CD Cover) as a gift to them.
&... I am a heavy Final Fantasy influenced people. :wink:
Teraslasch, thanks. so coincidence, I have named the album of this song to be "FF>>" as FF = Friends Forever = Fast Forward.
eh...
FF = Final Fantasy also... :lol:
[**EDIT**] The artworks of the CD/Cover...
(graphic printed directly on CD surface by using my EPSON R210 printer)
&... I am a heavy Final Fantasy influenced people. :wink:
Teraslasch, thanks. so coincidence, I have named the album of this song to be "FF>>" as FF = Friends Forever = Fast Forward.
eh...
FF = Final Fantasy also... :lol:
[**EDIT**] The artworks of the CD/Cover...
(graphic printed directly on CD surface by using my EPSON R210 printer)
Cheez
Moderator
OK mingguan, here goes.
Generally, I think you created a good ambience. The feeling is there - saying goodbye to your friends. First, what I like:
1. You did well in slowly increasing the flow of the piece. I like it. The beginning, the slight "halt" in the dotted crochet and minum of the piano (and later taken over by the harp) gives the feeling of moving forward but yet pulling backward. You may not realise, but it does create an effect of reluctance - and hence good for saying goodbye to your friends! But at 00:52" the piano started the constant crochet - feels the piece is progressing forward and moving on. Then at 1:03" the harp moved on to quavers which made the piece increasing in flow making one feel it is progressing further - "reluctance has given way to the inevitibility of leaving!" (my interpretation).
2. Flute and oboe are good choices of instruments. So is the bell/glockenspiel.
3. The strings are good - not jarring and serves well as backgound instruments. I guess your S90ES string patch is selected wisely - softer strings rather than hard. But of course, this means the "sucking effect" will be evident - but because it's a keyboard and not a sampler (hence lack of articulations), we can't be too picky on these things. So I think the strings are good.
Suggestions:
1. Panning - the piano is panned slightly to the right. As much as possible, don't pan the piano. Put it in dead centre. In recordings, pianos are usually in the centre.
2. Always watch the volume of your background instruments. The harp is too loud, both the glissandos and when it mimic the piano theme at 00:39" onwards. It is especially loud from 1:03" when playing arpeggios, almost drowning your oboe solo. The key to orchestral arrangement is not that every instrument must be heard clearly. Some of the instruments help to create certain mood/effects but may be hardly audible. So try decreasing the volume of your harp to as low as possible - just enough to hear it faintly. You'll be surprised at the results.
3. Use your mod wheel to change the volume of your wind instruments. If you haven't tried this, you should. Wind instruments (and strings) don't usually stay at one constant volume when holding a note. If you play around with the mod wheel adjusting the volume of the instruments, you'll get a more live-like effect. For example - at 2:33"/2:34", the flute ended with a very loud note. If you slowly decrease the last note (like fading off slightly) with your mod wheel, you'll get a more realistic effect. In fact, it's quite obvious at the end of each flute phrase throughout the piece that the note usually gets louder - a limitation of the keyboard sound you are using (they programmed that instrument that way). When sequencing wind instruments, you need to think as if you are actually playing/blowing the instrument.
4. A point about harmony. At 00:25, you have a slight problem with your harmony between the strings and the oboe solo. Both are playing C, then the strings sustained C while the oboe goes down to B, then A-G-A semiquavers (which is really G mordent). When the oboe plays A, the strings stepped from C to a A. C (string sustained) and B (oboe) clashes. Some clashes are OK but in this case because the oboe resolves to the A together with the strings, it is better to either: 1. change the C of the sustain string (E is a good option - but then don't go to A the next note); 2. Strings plays the same as the oboe without the mordent (ie C - B - A) to remove the C and B clash. A few other ones elsewhere but this one is more obvious.
5. When using 2 flutes, particularly when they are playing 3rds apart, you have to be more careful,with harmony. Problems arises when the notes jumped too great an interval. Will not go into theory - I guess we can leave it alone here.
Long post, but generally I really think it is a well done piece. A few tweaks and ready to burn into CD. With the right tools, you'll go very far!
Generally, I think you created a good ambience. The feeling is there - saying goodbye to your friends. First, what I like:
1. You did well in slowly increasing the flow of the piece. I like it. The beginning, the slight "halt" in the dotted crochet and minum of the piano (and later taken over by the harp) gives the feeling of moving forward but yet pulling backward. You may not realise, but it does create an effect of reluctance - and hence good for saying goodbye to your friends! But at 00:52" the piano started the constant crochet - feels the piece is progressing forward and moving on. Then at 1:03" the harp moved on to quavers which made the piece increasing in flow making one feel it is progressing further - "reluctance has given way to the inevitibility of leaving!" (my interpretation).
2. Flute and oboe are good choices of instruments. So is the bell/glockenspiel.
3. The strings are good - not jarring and serves well as backgound instruments. I guess your S90ES string patch is selected wisely - softer strings rather than hard. But of course, this means the "sucking effect" will be evident - but because it's a keyboard and not a sampler (hence lack of articulations), we can't be too picky on these things. So I think the strings are good.
Suggestions:
1. Panning - the piano is panned slightly to the right. As much as possible, don't pan the piano. Put it in dead centre. In recordings, pianos are usually in the centre.
2. Always watch the volume of your background instruments. The harp is too loud, both the glissandos and when it mimic the piano theme at 00:39" onwards. It is especially loud from 1:03" when playing arpeggios, almost drowning your oboe solo. The key to orchestral arrangement is not that every instrument must be heard clearly. Some of the instruments help to create certain mood/effects but may be hardly audible. So try decreasing the volume of your harp to as low as possible - just enough to hear it faintly. You'll be surprised at the results.
3. Use your mod wheel to change the volume of your wind instruments. If you haven't tried this, you should. Wind instruments (and strings) don't usually stay at one constant volume when holding a note. If you play around with the mod wheel adjusting the volume of the instruments, you'll get a more live-like effect. For example - at 2:33"/2:34", the flute ended with a very loud note. If you slowly decrease the last note (like fading off slightly) with your mod wheel, you'll get a more realistic effect. In fact, it's quite obvious at the end of each flute phrase throughout the piece that the note usually gets louder - a limitation of the keyboard sound you are using (they programmed that instrument that way). When sequencing wind instruments, you need to think as if you are actually playing/blowing the instrument.
4. A point about harmony. At 00:25, you have a slight problem with your harmony between the strings and the oboe solo. Both are playing C, then the strings sustained C while the oboe goes down to B, then A-G-A semiquavers (which is really G mordent). When the oboe plays A, the strings stepped from C to a A. C (string sustained) and B (oboe) clashes. Some clashes are OK but in this case because the oboe resolves to the A together with the strings, it is better to either: 1. change the C of the sustain string (E is a good option - but then don't go to A the next note); 2. Strings plays the same as the oboe without the mordent (ie C - B - A) to remove the C and B clash. A few other ones elsewhere but this one is more obvious.
5. When using 2 flutes, particularly when they are playing 3rds apart, you have to be more careful,with harmony. Problems arises when the notes jumped too great an interval. Will not go into theory - I guess we can leave it alone here.
Long post, but generally I really think it is a well done piece. A few tweaks and ready to burn into CD. With the right tools, you'll go very far!
Cheez, Thanks for your time for this detailed review. It really benefits me a lot. :lol:
1. Wah!!! I like to read people detail comment as I like to know how people feel after listen my song. Does they feel the same as when I written the song??? Your feeling/interpretation quite close to what I thought for this song.
2. For this song, I use Flute, Oboe, Harp, Piano, Celesta, Strings & Pad sounds. This is my favourite combination.
3. Eh… Sorry, although I have bought S90ES for several months, I still haven’t used it for sequencing. Temporally I only use it to practice some piano piece so that my playing skill won’t be forgotten. For this song, I still using Finale notation software. The sounds are purely MIDI sounds from my notebook. And I purely enter all the notes thru MOUSE.
4. For piano panning, it is the weakness of the software, as the sounds can’t be panned.
(sigh…)
5. The volume of the instruments can be controlled by adding those expression symbol (mp, mf, ff, <, >,p…etc) here & there. When the harp playing arpeggios, I like the feeling, thus “unconsciously” didn’t make it softer. Will take note on it.
6. For flute & oboe sounds, the volume I didn’t change much. As I’m not sure which is “natural” & which is “unnatural”. Sigh… maybe I still not familiar to those instruments. Will look into it.
7. Harmony, I must admit that it is my main weakness. As I only passed Grade 1 theory. Thus don’t know much. At 00:25, I did aware that it sounds weird, but I didn’t try any of your options as: if I use sustain E, it is too far from the preceding string notes (C D E); I didn’t let strings pays the same as the oboe without the mordent as I feel if I do that, the string sounds thin. Normally I don’t let strings change note if got other instrument (eg. flute/oboe for this case) hold on some note. Since I can’t found any solution, I just let it be lor (after I listen few more time, get used to it, then don’t feel weird liao… ha… ha…). But I think I really need to study more on harmony.
8. Actually I am using flute & oboe playing 3rd apart, as I realised that it sounds great (to me, it sounds like 2 flute playing 3rd apart + oboe as backup). Will take note on the interval also. Thanks for highlighting.
Last but not least, Thanks again for Cheez for writing so long review. I learn a lot from it. I think It help other softies to analyse song & improve also.
1. Wah!!! I like to read people detail comment as I like to know how people feel after listen my song. Does they feel the same as when I written the song??? Your feeling/interpretation quite close to what I thought for this song.
2. For this song, I use Flute, Oboe, Harp, Piano, Celesta, Strings & Pad sounds. This is my favourite combination.
3. Eh… Sorry, although I have bought S90ES for several months, I still haven’t used it for sequencing. Temporally I only use it to practice some piano piece so that my playing skill won’t be forgotten. For this song, I still using Finale notation software. The sounds are purely MIDI sounds from my notebook. And I purely enter all the notes thru MOUSE.
4. For piano panning, it is the weakness of the software, as the sounds can’t be panned.
(sigh…)
5. The volume of the instruments can be controlled by adding those expression symbol (mp, mf, ff, <, >,p…etc) here & there. When the harp playing arpeggios, I like the feeling, thus “unconsciously” didn’t make it softer. Will take note on it.
6. For flute & oboe sounds, the volume I didn’t change much. As I’m not sure which is “natural” & which is “unnatural”. Sigh… maybe I still not familiar to those instruments. Will look into it.
7. Harmony, I must admit that it is my main weakness.
As I only passed Grade 1 theory. Thus don’t know much. At 00:25, I did aware that it sounds weird, but I didn’t try any of your options as: if I use sustain E, it is too far from the preceding string notes (C D E); I didn’t let strings pays the same as the oboe without the mordent as I feel if I do that, the string sounds thin. Normally I don’t let strings change note if got other instrument (eg. flute/oboe for this case) hold on some note. Since I can’t found any solution, I just let it be lor (after I listen few more time, get used to it, then don’t feel weird liao… ha… ha…). But I think I really need to study more on harmony.8. Actually I am using flute & oboe playing 3rd apart, as I realised that it sounds great (to me, it sounds like 2 flute playing 3rd apart + oboe as backup). Will take note on the interval also. Thanks for highlighting.
Last but not least, Thanks again for Cheez for writing so long review. I learn a lot from it. I think It help other softies to analyse song & improve also.
Cheez
Moderator
I must say, with the hardware and software limitations you have (especially so if you are using purely notation method), the piece is excellent. For the flute and oboe getting louder, I know you didn't change the volume. The problem is with the samples themselves - how they programmed the instruments. That's why I always think your music will be dramatically different if you use the keyboard and mod wheels to sequence rather than pure notation.
Harmony apart, it is really very good.
By the way, what sound bank are you using? If it is really the midi sounds from your soundcard, I'm REALLY impressed!!!
Harmony apart, it is really very good.
By the way, what sound bank are you using? If it is really the midi sounds from your soundcard, I'm REALLY impressed!!!
Cheez
Moderator
That makes sounds better! I wouldn't imagine a notebook's build-in GM soundbank to sound that good. For soundfont's, it's believable.
And sequencing is very easy. You can still see the notation - just that your input method is not the mouse but the keyboard. That will be more lifelike since velocity etc are recorded as well and it wouldn't be just straight notes. Remember - don't quantize!
Will be great to hear your next piece! One day, we should collaborate!
By the way, I'm going to participate in an orchestral writing competition. Only allowed to use one library they mentioned. Daateline is first week of July. Hope I have the time to do it. Music already in my head. Theme already formed. Now just need the time...
And sequencing is very easy. You can still see the notation - just that your input method is not the mouse but the keyboard. That will be more lifelike since velocity etc are recorded as well and it wouldn't be just straight notes. Remember - don't quantize!
Will be great to hear your next piece! One day, we should collaborate!
By the way, I'm going to participate in an orchestral writing competition. Only allowed to use one library they mentioned. Daateline is first week of July. Hope I have the time to do it. Music already in my head. Theme already formed. Now just need the time...
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