Need advice and opinion from people. Thanks. :)

[Cloudie]

Hi all~

I am new here. ^^ FInally found a network of Singaporean musician. I am here to ask for some tips/opinion/advice from people about keyboard and synthesizer. Hope this post isn't too long for everyone. >.<

Yes. I have read the sticky thread, informations about keyboard and synthesizer for noobs. I am unable to understand a few of the term though, I don't have any background knowledge of music theory. (If there is a such a thing call music theory )

Anyway, maybe a little bit of myself. I am not a very advanced pianist/keyboardist. Self learnt it myself. I own my own keyboard of course, and I can understand and read music sheet for piano. (Don't know how to play any other instrument.) I have been playing songs on my keyboard for 2 years now (usually Final Fantasy Series/sentimental songs.) and at the moment, I want to do more than just playing songs. Simply playing songs and reading sheets is no longer as exciting/fulfilling anymore for me.

I have been looking at synthesizers, basically a keyboard that is able to create and tweak sounds effects, if I understand correctly. Sythesizers are also able to "upload" to computer, and play with all the sounds, do remixes...etc.

I am not sure if this is considered a synthesizer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrNY7lcXefQ&playnext_from=TL&videos=uyX_-w_0J8E

That is similar to what I would want to be able to do, playing different sounds on a keyboard. And from my limited knowledge, a synthesizer is able to do that, am I right? More than just that, I wanna to be able to do remixes on my own, on some metalcore songs. (if anyone is a metalcore fan here. ^^) Metalcore songs don't sound so nice solo on my puny keyboard.

I hope I am not looking at the wrong gear lol. From what I read, I think synthesizer is what I am looking for.

Does anyone have any advice/opinions? Any guide about synthesizer? I know synthesizer are expensive, so I am saving up, and setting aside 2k~3k for it.

Thanks in advance. ^^

 

[carboxymoron]

Well to keep things simple there're generally two classes of keyboards if you look at websites of major brands like Korg or Roland. One being performance synths (or just synths), and the other called workstations/arrangers. Synths are usually "portable" yet very powerful (compared to those Casio/Yamaha keyboard you put at home). Most modern synths can link up to your computer or can do basic recording/looping on the synth itself for you to create simple songs. A popular synth is the Korg X50 or Roland Juno series.

Workstations/arrangers on the other hand are designed to record and arrange multiple tracks. So you can compose entire songs with drums/bass/guitar/piano/strings or whatever other sounds... all electronically produced of course. They are usually not portable and some even contain an entire computer.

Personally I prefer to use a smaller synth and hook up to my computer for recording/editing. It's more focused on getting the right sound and playing. And I'd rather use a mouse+keyboard than press a lot of buttons on a workstation.

That said, you should head out to shops and ask them to demonstrate some synths and workstations so you can have a better idea how they work.

 

[SilverBeast]

Search Youtube for PSR S900, PSR S700, Tyros 3, Motif XS, M3, Fantom G to begin with. It might not be difficult for you to see something to start dwelling into. If you want, post your comments on what you feel about them.

 

[Cloudie]

So am I right to say that a synthesizer is not able to play other instruments?

And well, I have thought of going down to music shops like Swee Lee Music, but honestly, I won't buy immediately, I want some time to consider since I am going to spend this amount of money to buy this instrument. I am not sure if the staffs will be unhappy to like go there and test the product, since I have 0 experience in touching a synthesizer/workstation.

Thank you so much for the information. I never knew about these brands and models until I search them up.

They all pretty much sound like what I want in a keyboard. After looking at quite a number of them, I am actually considering Roland Juno-G or PSR S900.
-------------------------------------------------

Allow me to ask this.
Which of these keyboard (PSR S900, PSR S700, Tyros 3, Motif XS, M3, Fantom G, Roland Juno-G) is able to,

1) play different instruments on the keyboard?

2) record different sounds and instruments and mix them up together (like playing it all together so it sound like a rock band is playing), upload them to my PC and convert it to MP3 format (or any other playable audio format)

3) Last longer. (Durability) I would want to buy one which can last maybe for about 3 years or so? Something that can allow me to advance as I get better using it too.

These three are the most important features I am looking for in my new keyboard.
(Btw, the first two features in the keyboard that I am looking for, is it called a workstation or a synthesizer? lol sorry.)

Other than that, I would like to ask.
What are the others opinions of the brands, Roland or Yamaha? Pros and Cons of these two brands?
Is it okay to like test product at some of the music store, so that i can find what I really want? Just wondering if staffs there will be unhappy or not?
Lastly, as a beginner user of this synthesizer/workstation, which keyboard would be more preferable for me?

Thanks all again!

 

[Cloudie]

So weird, how come my post have to wait for moderater to approved but not immediate posted? o.o

EDIT: never mind, sorry for double posting. >.<

To moderaters: Sorry for quoting post, I didn't notice that requirement till I saw it on the left. :x

 

[carboxymoron]

If by different instruments you mean change the sound to strings, organ, guitar, bass, drums, or even weird sound effects... all of them can do that. That's why they are called synthesizers. If you see a keyboard that only has piano sound (plus maybe strings and organ) that's most likely considered a digital piano and not what you're looking for.

Like all electronic products they can last you a long time or break down "randomly"... just take good care of it. Store in a cool dry place lol

Swee Lee has Roland keys http://sweelee.com.sg/catalog/index.php?cPath=3_10 Or you can try City Music for Korg http://citymusic.com.sg/webshaper/store/viewCat.asp?catID=42 Or Yamaha for... Yamaha

Workstations and synths overlap on a lot of features. It's like comparing a hatchback and an SUV... they both get the job done but have different focus / selling point.

Btw I pm'd you about something related

 

[Cheez]

Cloudie, the question is whether you want to play different instruments at the same time and live, or do you want to "pre-record" (ie sequence) them then playback different instruments.

If you look at the specs of different keyboards, those that enable you to play different sounds at any one time is determined by it's multi-timbrality. A 16 multi-timbre instrument can play back 16 different sounds at one time; an 8 multi-timbre can playback 8 etc. The main question is how you want to use it - ie live or pre-recorded. If you want to use more than 2 sounds at the same time live, most of the time you'll need to employ key splitting (splitting the keyboard into 2 or more zones, each zone playing a different sound) or layering (2 or more sounds being played together at one time - ie layered). If this is the case, a stage piano is the best option (if you are more acoustic focused) because it's designed to let you do key splitting/layering very quickly and on the fly. If you don't need to use many sounds at one time live but rely on pre-recorded (ie sequencing) tracks, you'll probably want a synth or a workstation. A workstation has a built-in sequencer; for a synth, you'll need a PC/software to do that.

If you want quick playback without playing around with too much sequencing (ie auto-accompaniment - one button does all kind of thing), you want an arranger keyboard (ie Yamaha PSR, Tyros etc).

The types of sounds you want to use (analog, acoustic etc) and the genre you play will also determine the type of keyboard you'll get.

 

[SilverBeast]

Cloudie,

Perhaps you didn't view carefully at the main difference of those models when played :-D...

PSR S900, PSR S700, Tyros 3 are arranger workstations.
Motif XS, M3, Fantom G, Roland Juno-G are synthesizer workstations.

That brings us to the terms "arranger workstation" and "synthesizer workstation", with "workstation" meaning sound and sequencer (like a recorder) in one...and some models will also include sampling and audio track recording. With an arranger workstation, you are a "band leader" with auto accompaniment styles as your complimenting "band members". With a synthesizer workstation, you are like a "composer" which you bascially play/record every instrument track by track (arrangers with sequencers can do that too). Perhaps watch again those vids on arranger keyboards and you'll notice the difference in way they play (with left and right hand).

The information above is not as detailed. I do suggest that you go down to the different shops, test out different models and seek further advice ask from the sales people based on your needs/requirements. Personally, what is important is how the keyboard sounds, how the keys feel and the amplification (meaning either the built-in or external speakers). But also remember that technology is laways evolving and so, do expect that this will not be your last keyboard! :-D

 

[kongwee]

If sound design is what you want. Go for Synthesiser at least. Workstation is able to do Midi sequencing. In model like Fantom-G and Motif XS they behave more like Sonar,Logic,Cubase due to their colourful LCD screen. Of cos many control are different between Synthesiser and Workstation

Normally, I do not like arranger keyboard as they are often come with inferior key bed.

 

[Cloudie]

Thank you all so much for all the tips and advice.

After some research on the net and reading from everyone's post, I now have more or less better understanding of what I really need. Annnnnd, totally in love with Roland Juno G. LOL.

Yup, will go down to the shop and actually try it out myself on other models too.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[DoubleBlade]

Hey Cloudie,

Since you wanna do some metalcore music on a synth eh?

Why not try the Korg M50? It cost close to 1.4k at Citymusic.

I own a Yamaha PSR S500 (arranger keyboard) which was my bread and better keyboard playing in a metalcore band. Arranger keyboards are a definite no no for me when it comes to playing a metalcore band. Because lots of things which are required in metalcore music from a keyboard cannot be done on an arranger keyboard. After getting a Korg M50, I felt that I could so much more things on the M50. With the M50, you can easily do some awesome synth breakdowns with your band.

The M50 (just like any other synth) also gives you opportunities to tweak the sounds to your liking. If you can get past all the music technology jargon, you would definitely find lots of joy tweaking sounds. Plus its also user friendly as well. I can't say much about the Juno G because I don't own one but I can say is that for 1.4k, the M50 is definitely value for money with loads of functions to customise your sounds. It also comes with an inbuilt sampler as well, which gives you an opportunity to record your playing for playback. However, you would need to save your recording on a SD card (FAT32 format).

The Juno G cost around 2.4k at Swee Lee and it's predecessor, the Juno D cost around 1.5k? For me, I'm not quite convinced as to why I should pay $900 (2.4k - 1.5k) more for a newer model of the Juno series synths. To pay $900 for a few more extra functions plus improved sounds, I don't think it's that worth it.

I just feel that after comparing the specs for both Juno D and Juno G, the price difference isn't quite justified to convince yourself to buy a Juno G which is just a mere "improvement" to the Juno D synth.

 

[poladark]

I second the choice of the M50. If I was in your shoes I'd get one. I've been anxiously glancing at its' big brother the M3 as a replacement for my woefully inadequate and ageing Kawai K4 that currently serves as my source for sampler-based keyboard sounds for my band. (My Moog Little Phatty serves synthetic lead and bass duties.)

 

[Cheez]

The Juno G cost around 2.4k at Swee Lee and it's predecessor, the Juno D cost around 1.5k? For me, I'm not quite convinced as to why I should pay $900 (2.4k - 1.5k) more for a newer model of the Juno series synths. To pay $900 for a few more extra functions plus improved sounds, I don't think it's that worth it.

I just feel that after comparing the specs for both Juno D and Juno G, the price difference isn't quite justified to convince yourself to buy a Juno G which is just a mere "improvement" to the Juno D synth.

The Juno-G and the Juno-D are 2 different animals (even though they bear the same prefix). Juno-G is almost almost double of everything the Juno-D has plus quite a few features absent from the Juno-D - double polyphony (64 vs 128), double the patches, double the performances, about double the effects, ability to record 4 stereo audio tracks, about 9 times the number of patterns, expansion slot for SRX (this in itself is worthwhile the price difference), and the capacity to increase the internal memory using DIMM (expanding stereo recording for up to 51 minutes) etc. And they threw in Sonar LE with the Juno-G which is not bundled with the Juno-D. And I forgot to mention one important point - the Juno-G records midi (ie sequences) while the Juno-D does not - making them both different categories (Juno-G = workstation, Juno-D = synth).

In the end, it's personal preference. I would go for Korg if I'm need electronic sounds. But if I want an all-rounder (or focus on acoustic sounds), I would go for Roland. My suggestion - try out everything and then decide.

 

[kongwee]

Other thing is Kurzwell PC series, you should try to play it. But I think it hard to navigate as the interface is very old school. I do admire the sound a lot.

 

[SilverBeast]

Wow, a bit of injustice said about the Juno G here leh ...Fortunately, misconceptions are clarified .

One thing, is the S$2.4K price tag for the Juno G the online price? Is that the same as the price tag at the SW shops?

Personally, I've come across the juno G and I'm impressed with what this "light edition" of the Fantom X can do! When it comes to key action, I personally find that the Juno G feels much smoother than the M50. They somehow remind me of Yamaha's FSX keys, only that it feels lighter.

If one can get a Juno G and filling up its SRX expansion slot, upgrading it to 512MB ram and getting a memory card, that would result in a very powerful keyboard, especially for those with a budget like me.

 

[happyfun]

Yes, I own a Juno G and I believe the touch is much better than the M50.

Still, the M50 is awesome for those on a budget, especially with the City Music sale. The 61-key ones were priced at $1.1k with some freebies in the last sale if memory serves me right.

The problem with the Juno G, however, is that the price is inflated if you intend to get it from sweelee.
Unless they have a sale.
Shipping from overseas might not be the best option either because of the tax incurred, and if you use a courier, you'll get charged additional based on the product's weight.

 

[SilverBeast]

Shipping from overseas might not be the best option either because of the tax incurred, and if you use a courier, you'll get charged additional based on the product's weight.

In the first place, can it be done for new sets? I thought Roland has its policies against that. So, you bought yours new at SL? How much did it cost you...really S$2.4K as mentioned?

 

[happyfun]

Nah, I got it from someone who wanted to sell for much lower shortly after it's release, surprisingly in mint condition.

As to how he got it, I have no idea.