Jamming Studio Vocal Issues

[Edwin]

Hey all, I've a question regarding a problem i face often in jamming studios. I find that
1. vocals is always v.muddy sounding.
2. vocals tend to be severely overpowered by guitars.

I'm pretty sure its more of my own lack of understanding than the equipment that results in this problem.. Was wondering if anyone here can enlighten me with practical solutions ?

Thanks man!

Edwin

 

[AgingYouth]

Have you tried getting everyone to play softer instead of cranking the amps to 10?

 

[kdash]

the following thread may help:
http://soft.com.sg/forum/all-about-singing/67199-vocal-eq-settings-soundman-communication.html

cheers!

 

[Edwin]

alright.. thanks for the thread link.. helped.. yea.. tried to lower volume.. but the drums will still drown everythign out..haha..

 

[AgingYouth]

Drummer play softer? Seriously...

Usually, the ceiling of jamming studios are low... Normal height, ard 3 - 3.2m? Sound could be trapped much faster...

 

[Hydrofly]

Get your own mic, singer in my band uses a shure beta58, his vocals cuts through the mix like a knife.

 

[theunknown]

drumming played soft doesnt seem natural. i thought theres a thread on drummers who try to play soft. or something like that

 

[gothviruz]

When I first started my jamming studio, I get feedbacks (not that kind of feedback, hahah) from jammers that played in Studio 1. Since the room is huge, they cant hear each other and the vocals get drowned cos everyone will try to pump up their own volumes.

So what I did, i tried an experiment. I bought a 10 channel audio mixer, hook up all amps (guitar, bass, PA) into it and output to 2 floor monitor speakers, one nicely placed in the middle of the room and the other is just next to the drummer's throne. In this manner, everyone can hear everybody, you dun even need to crank up the volume and the drummer wont even need to play softer. It works well and ppl who jam in the Studio 1 gave good feedbacks (again, not that kind of feedback, hahah).

 

[cereal]

Hi GothViruz,

Did our first jam at odiocrib last sunday at Studio 1, i must say it was excellent. Large spacious rooms with sofa, and the idea of hooking up to PA system did pay off dividends. We can hear each other well, esp the singer and sound balancing is not much of a chore. Great stuff.

But i do have a complaint (sorry la, sgporean must always complain..haha ) . Since everything goes from the line out of the amp head to the mixer, it seems i can't EQ at the amp at all. And nothing goes into the cabinet speakers either.

We can try doing EQ from the mixer but i feel the sound is not as shiok as when going the the amp speakers, esp when we got pedals hooked up, the tone coming from the PA is not as good as coming from the amp speakers.

This is just my opinion, dunno abt wht the other jammers has said so far. Just a suggestion to improve the sound quality. Cos i think the studio has great environment and your worker was excellent, nice and helpful throughout. Those who have been to other places can testify with the f-up aunties/uncles or f-care type studio owners/workers.

Cheers

 

[cereal]

Sorry to OT the thread,

but yeah mics are usually the problems with muddy sounding vocals. Cos i know of studios that use cheap 20-30 dollar karaoke mics.

Its a good idea to bring your own mic like Hydrofly said. Since the rest of the band members will either bring guitars/pedals/keyboards/drumsticks, the vocalist can bring own mic...better hygiene practices too

 

[fgl]

Yes, as a former mike-farter..I strongly suggest U do so .. :mrgreen:

 

[kdash]

eww... poor mic...

heard of your special "technique" before, bro

 

[nextis]

muddy...

The vocals sound muddy because of a few reasons.

1) probably the eq settings of the mic channel was not set properly. Try rolling of the low end a little.Probably 60hz cut arnd 6db would be nice. boost slightly the mid frequency around 2-4khz. For the guitars, try to cut a little of the 1-4khz range to give the vocals more breathing space. Do not cut or boost anyting more than 6db usually.
2) the mixer pre-amps are not powerful enough to cut through the guitar and bass stacks. These guitar amps and stack have tremendous amount of gain. To get the right tone, usually
it will have to at least reach the 12 0clock position for the gain. This is LOUD. If the mic pre-amp and the mixer or pwer amp is not powerful enough, Not only will they be muddy, it will be drowned out.
3) A lot of jamming rooms here are untreated. Small room, untreated rooms, + powerful amps = disaster. the reflections will make even the best systems sound cheap.

My advices is, do not go for guitar amps more than 30 watts if your room is small. A big marshall stack is simply overkill! get those tube amps like blackheart with 5watt tube output. You dont have to play loud to get a killer tone. It doesnt matter what kinda mic you got. if all of the above considerations, are not factored in. doesnt mean with a sm58 can guarantee you a good sound. If unable to change any of those factors one word of advice, play softer but doesnt mean u cant play aggresively!

HOpe this reply benefits you.

 

[gothviruz]

Hi GothViruz,

Did our first jam at odiocrib last sunday at Studio 1, i must say it was excellent. Large spacious rooms with sofa, and the idea of hooking up to PA system did pay off dividends. We can hear each other well, esp the singer and sound balancing is not much of a chore. Great stuff.

But i do have a complaint (sorry la, sgporean must always complain..haha ) . Since everything goes from the line out of the amp head to the mixer, it seems i can't EQ at the amp at all. And nothing goes into the cabinet speakers either.

We can try doing EQ from the mixer but i feel the sound is not as shiok as when going the the amp speakers, esp when we got pedals hooked up, the tone coming from the PA is not as good as coming from the amp speakers.

This is just my opinion, dunno abt wht the other jammers has said so far. Just a suggestion to improve the sound quality. Cos i think the studio has great environment and your worker was excellent, nice and helpful throughout. Those who have been to other places can testify with the f-up aunties/uncles or f-care type studio owners/workers.

Cheers

Hi there,
I take all feedbacks positively, no worries.

Regarding the guitar amps, it can still be tweaked and can still play ard with the amp head knobs but the result of this will only come out from the cabinet speakers and wont affect the floor monitor speakers. If i'm not wrong lah. I'm saying all this from my "not so high level technical views" lah.. heheh
Oh ya, the individual monitor speakers have equilizer at the sides, too.. can try playing ard with this also.

But nevertheless, I will look into this (researches, asking ard, experimenting) to see how else I can improve the sound, like u've mentioned earlier. Never try never know rite?

Anyway, thanks for the feedback!