I'm trying to learn guitar theory here.. but then i don't know where to start?

[Hei]

Hi guys, first thread on the guitar rookie corner here.

have been playing the guitar for about a year plus, well not too good.. quite bad actually.
Found out about music theory quite long ago, but decided to ignore it since i was just playing casually, not going pro or anything, hence the way of thinking that i didn't need to learn theory at all.

Then after awhile i thought that it would be boring to just learn trying to play through the tabs, or rather it did not have any meaning just playing but not understanding what you're doing, hence i tried to pick up music theory in my free time. However, music theory to me is much harder. Hence the purpose of this thread.

Well so far... i've read up basic stuffs on the internet like the scales (chromatic and pentatonic), single notes on a 6-string guitar itself, nothing fanciful (btw i don't have any plans to take up music lessons because thats just going too far, guitar itself is a hobby for me and learning the theory is also part of it, but learning it through a teacher might seem a bit too serious for me).

So this thread basically will be where i post my question, and hopes somebody along the way will help me with it of course i do not plan to use soft.sg users (or softies as some of you call it) to be my dictionary, i've done reading by myself and this is where the place where i post my doubts about music theory.

 

[Hei]

well first up..
the thing about pentatonic scale, and this thing known as 'modes'.

At first when i read up about the pentatonic scale, i was given a position like this

|-|-|-|-|x|-|-|x|
|-|-|-|-|-|x|-|x|
|-|-|-|-|-|x|-|x|
|-|-|-|-|-|x|-|x|
|-|-|-|-|x|-|-|x|
|-|-|-|-|x|-|-|x|
sorry if this illustration is bad... lol.

yeah, so i thought that was known as the pentatonic scale and somehow misread that this could be played all over the fretboard, knowing that its a pentatonic scale.

However as i moved on with the lesson, the shape of the 'box' started to change, into all kinds of shape, although it is similar i did not understand what did they mean, and they just threw walls of text without any illustration or explanation, and these different 'boxes' meant that they were different forms of the 'pentatonic scale'?

If so, what do these different modes mean, is there an order of memorization and also how is it practical to guitar playing?

 

[J.custom]

That illustration is a minor pentatonic scale. There are usually 2 types of scales, major(sounds happy) and minor(sounds sad). The boxes that they're showing you are specific shapes that can be applied all over the fretboard, you can even combine different shapes(if appropriate).

A mode is a type of scale, but with a different starting root note, with the exception of the ionian mode. I suggest you learn some basic theory first and develop a better understanding of scales before moving on to modes because things will get more complicated when learning about modes, and if you don't have a strong foundation, you will get confused and things will be more unclear than before.

Once you master the scales, you can basically form any chord, any position on the fretboard. Applicable to scales as well.

If you're interested to learn more I do give lessons bro, hehe. I'll be able to teach you theory and how to apply it when playing the guitar.

 

[Hei]

^ thanks.
however my current busy schedule do not give me the time to take up any lessons, only casually.

 

[cryingstatue]

guitar theory vs music theory

Hey there Hei,

its great that you want to learn some theory to compliment your playing.

let me give you my thoughts though....

to me i think there's a difference between learning music theory and guitar "theory" or as i like to call it guitar applied theory.

theres a difference between learning how to understand tabs better and playing and learning faster as opposed to learning what notes are contained within a scale and what scale works over such and such etc.

music theory is difficult to apply to guitar because most of it is very shape oriented from scales to chords, we dont learn what notes are in a pentatonic scale/chord we just learn it visually and apply it. some might argue that learning these shapes is music theory but thats barely scratching the surface.

to get to the point if you find that you are playing badly ask yourself what's bad? here are a few questions i usally ask new students:

1) can you play me a song from memory
2) can you play me a full song from memory?
3) can you play me at least 5 songs with or without the chord charts?
4) can you play a solo from a song from memory?
5) can you improvise a solo?
6) does what you play sound like the song unless you chose to do a different angle on it?

if you dont have anything for the questions above then the problem really isnt that you need music theory... you just need to make sure you can play the songs better... sounds stupid i know but the truth is in my experience when students ask to learn music theory they dont really mean notes and such or i find out or they find out its not what they want to learn at that point in time. in fact learning music theory will be just wasting your time when you should just dive into learning songs proper.

of course this is just my opinion, i'm more than happy to try and help you out with theory but try it out and learn some songs proper first and pick up the necessary skills before music theory comes in

 

[lester_music]

whatever you play on the guitar, any note you hit against a chord, any chord progression,any rhythm, any interval between notes..there is always a theory concept behind it......its a matter of whether u understand it or not...

understanding music theory is like understanding how a car works rather than just knowing how to drive a car....

some people don't need theory cause they can feel & hear but its always good to hv both(theory + good ears)

the advantage of knowing theory also helps u to communicate what you want to other musician easily..

in music, theory is basically all the same...its just that sometimes for starters its hard to relate them to songs especially the scales..sometimes starters wonder why play all the maj scale, and minor scale but in actual fact when you can relate how it works in a song, u begin to realise all the songs are actually using the same concept...

to start off, perhaps you would like to buy any theory book, learn about time signature, scales, maj, min, different note/rest value, triads, chords tones..to be honest its a long process of learning cause you need to get it into your head...that's the difficult part.....meaning that know it so well that it can be recalled instantly when u need it in a song...for example if i ask you to sharpen the ninth of a C chord , you need to know instantly to sharpen the D note..

sometimes there seems to be no relation with what u are playing cause its so dry ...but in actual fact there is and you just need someone to be able to explain to you the relation..

so just ask around as much as you can if u don't hv time for lessons....there are always people who are willing to share..

 

[Hei]

Hey there Hei,its great that you want to learn some theory to compliment your playing.

what you just said just enlightened me... really.

yes, what i want to do exactly is not to learn about the whole of music theory, just the practical part of it that i can apply to, such as improvising a solo.

However i do believe even if i am not wanting to improvise a solo, such music theory comes in handy at times such as figuring out songs. you know... sometimes when you want to play something however a tab isn't available, being able to know the key should help right? or at least that was what i read up. and btw.. stated in bold, i can do 1-4 and 6, except improvising a solo. so that should give you an idea that i could play (then again, nothing great).

what you've just said also made me think that music theory isn't that important after all, and that skills come before theory (to some extend). However playing for a year or so, safe to say that i have do have some skills, nothing great, but i still somehow feel that music theory will still help me improve my understanding of guitar playing. I think that just by reading numbers through a screen or a paper and playing along is pointless.

and also you stated that 'learn some songs proper first and pick up the necessary skills before music theory comes in', well as i stated earlier i do believe i have my skills at a certain level, and most certainly do believe that i can play some songs proper, well of course nothing fanciful. no offence taken

 

[Hei]

used to be in the school band.. regretted not paying attention the theory classes.
so i have to learn them here too huh..

 

[cryingstatue]

some useful resources

hey i'm glad i could help so no offense taken!

here are two books i recommend to study for theory:

1.)Music theory for guitarists by Tom Kolb by Hal Leonard

2.)Comprehensive Music theory by Mark Harrison

both books are actually available in the esplanade library great resource for music stuff i wont say much but lets just say that you will be pleasantly surprised if you do make the trip down. alternatively you can reserve these two books and pick it up at the nearest library for you

you can also buy the books actually because there are some worksheets for you to try out at the end of every chapter.

i recommend these two books because they arent too heavy in terms of reading and the first book is guitar based, second book not much but it really explains theory in a well comprehensive manner.

going back to my previous comment well i wasnt implying that music theory isnt important just that it might not be relevant for you at this stage in your playing. learning how to figure out a song is still a very hands on thing which is faster to take cues from someone else. learning music theory will get you there but it will be a huge detour.

 

[lester_music]

or u can try reading up from this site..

http://www.musictheory.net/


the more you understand theory, you will find that what u playing makes more sense......

I believe the best way of learning is both practical and theory at the same time...so that you don't have to turn back to do one or the other....

 

[Hei]

or u can try reading up from this site..

http://www.musictheory.net/


the more you understand theory, you will find that what u playing makes more sense......

I believe the best way of learning is both practical and theory at the same time...so that you don't have to turn back to do one or the other....

hahaha everybody has their own different views in this forum...

 

[lester_music]

hahaha everybody has their own different views in this forum...

one of the reason for that is because, many don't hv the chance to go thru proper training...that's why trying to short cut here and there......

music is never something where people here are seriously into...

 

[SotAnLite]

I think one of the more general approach can be broken down into chords and scales.

The way I see, I like to hinge everything back to the major scale:


W W H W W W H


E.g. C Major Scale (key of C major) is made up of the notes:
C D E F G A B



Chromatically speaking, there are in total 12 notes, i.e.:
C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B



Here, you'll realize that in the key of C major, C to D is 1 Whole interval, while E to F is Half an interval apart...
So, by the same token of the major scale formula, you can find out all the notes in every other keys.

E.g. In the key of G major, the notes are:
W W H W W W H
G A B C D E F# G

Application: By understanding how to derive the family notes in any key, it allows me to quickly derive all the family chords and the notes in any key. This is especially useful when i am required to transpose a song / music piece from one key to another on the spot during band practice.


Anyhow, here is only an example of my understanding in music theory. if you would like to know more, feel free to contact me.

mobile: 91149094

P.s. If you are interested to know how chords are formed, there is theory behind chordal construction as well. One of the greatest skill I picked up as a guitarist is to know how to form chords in different voicings... Once I know that, basically I have no more use for those "guitar chords encyclopedia" since I can even form my own chords from scratch...


Cheers,
Han Yew

 

[aremarf]

Theory is just a way to write down real-life sounds. It helps you to read and write - but if you can't listen and speak, it's kindof pointless to read and write (i.e. it's a whole package thing).

Don't forget to apply the read/write to the listen/speak!

(e.g. if you know the scale shapes, but don't know how to apply it to things you hear [and therefore apply it randomly or poorly], then it's like students memorising phrases to write in compositions - in some way, I might even say the listening and speaking part is more important than the reading and writing part - both in language learning and in music.)

 

[aremarf]

So, what's my 2 cents? As you pick up theory - constantly try to link it back to "listening" and "speaking". Don't neglect transcribing and ear training - and improvising... these acts of "listening" and "speaking" are important.

 

[SotAnLite]

Totally agree with aremarf.

Indeed, when we learn guitar, we must learn it holistically (as a whole package!).

One may learn to excel in:
- Theory,
- Ear Training,
- Fretboard Knowledge, and
- Sight Reading

A simple way of how I look at improving skills is to look at learning music through mastering:
- Theory, and
- Techniques

Theory is applicable to ALL instruments, e.g. triads can be played in all instruments.
Techniques are applicable only to specific instruments, e.g. a piano cannot do a whammy effect like an electric guitar.

So, if you can master both theory and techniques, you'll be a very outstanding guitarist in terms of skills already.

I define musicianship in a deeper sense. Talking about that, the above concept of "theory and techniques" is more of the science aspect. The art aspect is more elusive, because it involves varying preferences, approaches, and interpretations...

Anyways, hope this helps!

So, what's my 2 cents? As you pick up theory - constantly try to link it back to "listening" and "speaking". Don't neglect transcribing and ear training - and improvising... these acts of "listening" and "speaking" are important.

 

[djanggo]

first,third and fifth note of a scale creates a chord.....haahahhaa..thats it....learning scales just gives you idea of the phrasing melody as guideline for building your own solos and phrasing....actually creativity of making music is important...learning solos by ears are more difficult...because some musics and solos doesnt really follow straight forward scales pattern like what you learn in a book or all guitarist sound the same playing scales....you need to listen to more music and keep on learning songs by ears to train your hearing starting from simple to difficult...i have few friends learning yamaha advance very good with fretboard theory but have problem learning fast solos by ears.....the better your ear training the better guitarist you would be..