Hi Guys, I need some advice on mixing/mastering this track.

[daryle]

Hi guys,

i've been doing acoustic covers with a friend for years. We always record at my place.

The problem is i think i don't know how to accomodate her voice properly. Previously, our recordings always sounded a bit "chaotic". We realised that was because i was trying to do too much with my guitar, and so i decided to tone my playing down.

We recorded a few songs yesterday. But the "chaotic" problem seems to persist a bit. It's as though there's this very tiresome and exhausting feel about her vocal track. Like when you listen to her singing, even though it's nice, you feel like your brain is in a "mess". Or you really feel like yawning.

I don't know how to describe it properly. I hope you can understand what i mean.

I put three examples of one of our covers on this website:
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/sharp__edge/



She Will Be Loved (1)

Guitar tracks were recorded with both mics, one pointing at the bridge, and one pointing at the 15th fret (the point where the neck and body meet). Both tracks hard panned left and right.

Vocal track was recorded with the singer around 6 inches away from the mic.


She Will Be Loved (2)

Same as She Will Be Loved (1), but this time with the singer as close to the mic as humanly possible (for experimentation sake).


She Will Be Loved (3)

Same as She Will Be Loved (1), but this time with only the track from ONE guitar mic panned slightly to the left. In other words, guitar is no longer in stereo.



Can you guys see what i mean.... I hope to be able to improve in such a way that the overall track has a much more relaxing and "chill out" feel to it.

Is it because when i record my guitars in stereo, they swallow up the singer? Or is it because my singer needs to change her style a bit? I noticed slight improvement when she moved really really close to the mic.

But really, i don't know jack sh!t about recording, mixing or mastering. So some tips would be deeply appreciated.



Before you reply to this thread, i would like to thank you in advance for your advice. thanks!

 

[kongwee]

Personally, I like number 1 better. This is due a number of vocal that have been exposed to. Things I would wanna to have. A stronger pluck on guitar, more groove. More bottom end. This one you need to play around the body of the guitar. You can eq but fix it with mic position first. The time and effort are all your so take time to play with mic position. You also can try X-Y or M/S micing.

Vocal is the thing very near to my liking. If your room is no lively then add a bit of reverb. Best if you can make your room lively, than your guitar and vocal will be good. That mean your room you can control the liveliness. I used to work with ASC Tubetrap and Studiotrap for hi-fi setup and play around the absorption and diffuser side alot. I know it work for acoustic control very well. But it is very expensive to get them here. Also, you have problem with mic character, then change one if possible. Some singer do keep their own mic which they will more comfortable to use.

As for mixes part, I think the best captures is the most you need to focus on. Thing like adding compressor, eq and reverb, normally done at very minimum. The main thing is the room, gears and mics. Of cos you need to do a bit editing like bringing some part of the vocal be louder. Some professional studio, you can get very good result without doing editing or adding effect cos of that three thing.

 

[blueprintstudios]

hi daryle, no worries, no pressure, no professional studio talk from me. sorry for the late reply as well, was busy recording/mixing past few days.

just some deficiencies that I keep hearing in the right pan of the guitar, it crackles once in a while when you play a certain note. (the one with 15th fret ?) probably your compression or coming from the guitars.
the bridge mike is nice for the "cajon feel" when you hit.

great job with the guitars/vocals recording. what mics and preamps was used?

my vision when I hear the mix it's a "bedroom/small room setting".

the stereo image is nice, just slightly unnatural (almost as if right pan = strumming, left pan = cajon), because they're far panned, but i wouldn't suggest you narrow pan it cos it kills the fullness.
so what I'd recommend you to do is make it work as well in stereo / mono. take your 2 tracks, duplicate another new "narrower/mono-like" stereo to fill up the center. bring the levels lower than the far pan tracks. if need be, add reverb on this mono center guitar track so it fills up center as if it's a mono room mic. just adjust to taste until your "seperate cajon guitar" sounds natural.

Vocalist performance in 1 is better than 2 (especially when she messes up singing "step on my window"). but I definitely prefer 2's miking because intimacy feel is key (at least in my opinion) here, not everything has to sound like a live stage pub act.although I don't quite get what you mean by "chaotic" but I'm assuming it's the reverb. it's reflecting levels are too high,and the pitchnote of each word decays/overlaps into the next word, it should reflect slowly + decay and subtle. it puts the mix out of shape because picture this ,it sounds like you chucked your head in between 15th fret and bridge of guitar (little/no reverb), the vocals is fine but suddenly the reverbtail of the vocals adds as if it doesn't fit the whole acoustic feel.
so re-work on that reverb. not too obvious. get something more subtle. and lower the levels of the reverb make it less wet or something. cos her vocals now sounds like she's singing on a stage with 0 audience therefore the reverb bounces all over.. maybe explains the "yawn" effect.

but of course this all changes if you want a "live stage setting", then wack the reverb on the guitars to fit the "size" of the vocals. then it should cover/match up nicely.

as for mastering side of things.. well. get your mix fixed first. heheh.

 

[daryle]

=kongwee

Thanks for your advice!

Actually i don't know the meaning of the word "mastering", so i think what i'm actually asking about is mixing.

There was a little bit of compression for both the guitars and vocals. But er.... compression is something totally new to me. What i actually did was just use the pre-set compression and reverb available on Garageband.

I think perhaps my issues with the track could be solved with setting the compression and EQing correctly. And also mic placement.

Anyway i also analysed my vocalist's singing and i realised that when she reaches intense parts of a song, there is a huge surge in the upper mid range. This can get to the point where you actually feel deafened. Both when listening to the recorded track, or when i'm sitting in the same room as her when she's singing.

You can't really hear the full extent of the problem in the three tracks i uploaded. I experienced this problem at a greater magnitude with other covers.

So here is a critical question for me:

1) Should i tell my vocalist to change her singing style?

2) Or should i just keep searching for the perfect way to record her?

I mean personally, i think her singing is quite good. And i'm afraid that if i tell her to change her singing style, it will no longer be natural. It will be like suppressing her style.

=blueprintstudios

Hey man, no worries! I'm not demanding people to come and give me advice.

I used a pair of AT2035s for all the tracks. They were powered by a UX2, and recorded on Garageband.

I didn't actually do everything live. I recorded the guitars first, then got the vocalist to come down and do as many takes as she wanted. Thanks for the feedback! I will go and experiment with the panning and reverb.

Actually now that a few days have passed, i have a better way of describing what i meant. It's not really "chaotic" but more rather deafening. Like what i said to KongWee, i think it's because of the upper-mids coming from her singing.

I want to know what you think too. Should i try to change the way my vocalist sings? Or is that a big no-no?

 

[kongwee]

Well Daryle, it is possible tell her to change her vocal expression. It is very hard to do too. Normally, I tell to vocalist in nice way. If you don't do this, I have to do this and that. In end the result is not so pleasing if I have to do a lot of "damage control". Of cos, there is a limit the vocalist can do. In garageband I believe is a bit harder to zoom in the vocal track and change the gain on small segment that is too loud or too soft. Sometime, I do show what I will do to let the vocalist know a bit of the work. Also I will tell the vocalist not used to sing in studio, the projection of voice is very different from singing live. If she is not used to studio recording, then tell her this "truth" and let her find her voice. Note you have to do a bit gain change in vocal track before you send to compressor. You will experience the compressor kick in too much which not nice to heard especially on the peaks. There are youtube of different compressor and how to use it. You can see them in youtube as thing like threshold,ratio, attack and release is the same in all compressor. It help you to understand more about compressor.

 

[blueprintstudios]

upper mids sharpness, then just change the miking or EQ multi band compress.no offence but a common issue, it's too easy to point the blame at the musician if your audio engineering is not on par or better than the musician. that's what you "signed up" for when you decided to record your vocalist hehe.

 

[daryle]

hahah. actually my audio engineering "experience" is so little that i don't know how to EQ properly as well. I guess that's where the problem really lies.

But also, you've given me some valuable tips about reverb and how to make stereo/mono tracks work better. For now, what i'll do is experiment with mic placement and her different singing styles.

Thank you very much to KongWee and Ron for the tips so far!

 

[kongwee]

When in the meantime, do consider upgrade to a fuller DAW. Logic Express/Studio if you want to open garageband project files. Other like Cubase, Protools, Reaper Fm....etc even those lit DAW verson that came with your audio interface or any hardware.

 

[blueprintstudios]

You're welcome.