Floyd Rose Upgrades - What to do?

[ShredCow]

So... I've got a nice guitar... a PWE 7.

Everything feels and sounds great on it... but some things can be improved. One of them is that Original Floyd Rose 7, made by the Floyd Rose company.

I'm starting this thread to "document" the upgrades done to this OFR7. I think it's always good to know what can be done and what observable changes happen (in this case, it will probably only be my perception unless I record something so all can share in this immensely exhilarating experiment). I'm sure that some of the tweaks/upgrades/mods can be applied to regular tremolo systems with similar results.

So hopefully, things are informative and helpful so I can gain rep points to buy an air guitar. Heh.


Starting off, some simple observations about the OFR:

• It does not have locking trem posts. Ibanez and Gotoh has locking trem posts and those are helpful because I always take out the entire trem when changing strings (and no, it doesn't take half a day to restring). Then again, people have lived with the OFR for decades without complaining so there. To upgrade to locking posts would be cool (and I have a pair!) but troublesome and possibly dangerous.

• The chrome finish has some pitting/dimpling on the saddles and under the base plate. I had a chrome pre-1993 Ibanez Edge that had no dimpling at all. I had 2 gotoh floyds, of which one had perfect chroming while the other suffered from dimpling.

• The trem arm still has some play despite having the collar tightened down. Annoying. Simply annoying. Still, it's not a big issue and it's miles better than the Ibanez Edge-series arm assembly. Gotoh's is still the best. A pity that the Gotoh's can't be retrofitted onto the OFR's... I think. Hmmmm.

• The fine tuners have a smooth, even torque. That's a nice thing. They aren't tilted or low-profiled though. Chest-high nerd rocking presents a possible arm placement dilemma.

• The stock springs look like crap (dulled, cloudy brown) and feel sticky (for what?! To cut down on spring noise?). They are also high tension compared to the old Edges (sliver springs, dunno what's the dimensions/measurements).

• The stock trem claw is thinner than a Gotoh's. Yes, it is actually noticable that but I don't think it would matter too much. Maybe I can get something ground out of titanium for this huh? Hahaha...

• The high E slow on the Locking Nut is filed too low. Like 2 hairs too low. I play with low action so this is annoying.

• All the black painted/finished/what-do-you-call-it parts actually rust. Blame the weather I suppose?

• The trem block is apparently a brass block coated in chrome. Why is it coated in chrome? It's on the underside of the unit - there's not how to show off bling. What tonal benefits would chrome coating the trem block provide? Strange.

• Still, it's built like a tank. It doesn't look as sleek and as ergonomic as the modern designs but it's surely reliable. Heck, there's no silly plastic parts (Edge Pro hint hint) and the all-metal construction is bolted together.

So there... that's the OFR on my PWE 7. The only "flaw" in the guitar. I wish it were as well made as a Gotoh unit or an old Ibanez low-pro/original Edge 7 but Gotoh doesn't make a 7 string version and if the original Edge 6 sounds duller/darker/muddier than a Gotoh, and given the physical similarities between a Gotoh and OFR, I've no reason to believe an Edge7 would be a tonal improvement.

So there. That's the base I will start from. Let's see what tweaks will happen.

 

[empty71]

SWEET guitar!!!

 

[ShredCow]

Hehehe, indeed Malcolm.


Okay so let's see. I've done 2 things to the OFR7 so far.

1. A New OFR bar
Interestingly, Davis sells the Schaller bar for a mere $20. Elsewhere, the AllParts bar, no idea who made them, sells for quite a bit more. Strange... but maybe not - Davis always had great pricing.

So as the original bar had a bit of play to it regardless of how tightly it was screw down - I hoped the new bar would set things right. I don't care if EVH had his bar all clanking and loose, I want mine tight and fixed in one position all the time.

It didn't set things right. In fact, the new assembly had more play than the original.

But the old arm was a tighter fit in the new arm-holder. Way cool.

Point is - The manufacturing tolerance for the arm assembly obviously isn't (pun not intended) tight enough. So if anyone is going to get tighter fitting parts, then I suppose they should be prepared to get parts that might not solve the issue.

Come to think of it. Perhaps I should have gotten a gold bar and not a chrome one. Bling makes the world go round.

So there - a new arm assembly got rid of the annoying play.

 

[ShredCow]

And this is the 2nd thing I've done to my OFR 7...

2. Raw Vintage Springs
In addition to appearing cheap + feeling sticky, the original springs were very stiff/high-tension and that probably affected string tension. I don't see a point in making a guitar harder to play (as does Mr Rusty Cooley) so... that had to change.

So I bought a set of Raw Vintage springs. Nice advertisement about how they impact the tone (yeah, right, springs? C'mon!) and were low tension. Yay.

But oh man... I got more than what I expected! What a difference in quality, tension and tone!

Not only are the Raw Vintage springs well-made (all nice and shiny, no sticky stuff), they were really low tension! I used all FIVE RV springs to replace the 3 stock OFR7 springs and the OFR7 still felt slinkier/smoother. Of course, string tension was also slightly looser. I play with a .09 - .42 + .56 set by the way... these RV springs are really low tension.

But real kicker was the change in tone. Bolder, fatter tone with longer sustain. Acoustically, the guitar was just a bit louder but projection/attack(?)/cut(?) was noticeably stronger... to my ears, there was an increase in the midrange. I think this midrange boost affected the low-mids too and the bass side of things got stronger (not really louder, more like "thicker" or bolder).
This change carried over to the amped tone. (Just note that my 7 string has low output humbuckers)

What was a search for better springs resulted in a confirmation (for me personally, I doubted this spring thing could change much) of a real, working, not-hyped tone shaper.

Worth a shot for what it's worth (Around 30 bucks from TY Music) if anyone is looking for a way to fatten up your tone or getting a slinkier trem/string feel... or if you wanna look oh-so-cool with FIVE springs in a Floyd Rose cavity... :twisted:

Very pleased.

 

[Everdying]

just wondering, but does your OFR state anywhere that it's made by Schaller?

at one time a few yrs ago, when production of OFR shifted to china and were made by Ping, well needless to say the german made OFRs were being snapped up everywhere.

interestingly yours has a brass block coated in chrome, which i havent seen before in a german made one.

 

[ShredCow]

On the underside of the OFR 7 it is stamped "Made in Germany".

I'm not aware that the OFR ever had a non-brass block? The Ping OFRs had uncoated brass blocks. The Schallers have a chrome plated brass block.

Correction, "chrome plated" is misleading... it's actually "nickle plated".

 

[Everdying]

yea, cos i dont recall seeing any shiny blocks before
i think tho there have been variations on the block, cos iirc i have seen blocks from solid steel.

my 80s schaller trem also looks like steel...its been scratched everywhere but no signs of brass is showing thru.
so perhaps they made the move to brass later on.

btw, i've never seen a 7-string OFR close up before...but in the pic the base plate looks thinner than the 6-string version?

 

[ShredCow]

Should be looking the same! Haha... no reason for it to be different... but I have read some people (Suhr is one of them I think) saying that the OFR 7 is better machined than the OFR. Strange.

Still. I can't wait for a Gotoh 7777777. Bah. Or for FloydRoseUpgrades to have 7 string custom floyds.

 

[Everdying]

well at least you didnt do what so many others have done, and that is to buy a ibanez 7-string.
i've never liked ibanez bridges no matter what anyone says about them

oh wait, u do have ibanez's

 

[ShredCow]

well at least you didnt do what so many others have done, and that is to buy a ibanez 7-string.
i've never liked ibanez bridges no matter what anyone says about them

oh wait, u do have ibanez's

I don't like the Ibby 7s because so many of them have the locking nut rear mounted (dunno what you call it) and the bolts go THRU the neck. Weakens the neck unnecessarily. Also, their necks are too thin.

The indo-made Korn 7 string is not bad though. Tonepros TOM with Dimarzio PAF7s, mahogany body. Not too pricey too, around 1.1k SGD.

Btw, I wouldn't want to use the Ibanez trems too. I had an original Edge unit before and it got replaced by a Gotoh. Now in the same guitar, the gotoh sounds SO MUCH BETTER. The Edge sounded as though there was a blanket over the tone. So like I mentioned above - if that's the case with between the Edge and Gotoh + given the similarities between the Gotoh and OFR, I've no reason to believe the Edge would sound better. It would be more ergonomic and better looking though.

 

[Everdying]

arent all ibanez edge and related bridges just a steel alloy shell with some kinda weird filling? looks like metal cookies
even the whammy bars are the same right?

but gotoh yea, tho the cheaper gotohs dont look any better than say a TRS 101...
maybe its just me...but i like seeing nice thick steel base plates before i even decide to use the trem.

one thing i been contemplating is getting a cheap epi G-400 and drilling it out for a floyd and couple other mods...cos my gibson SG with factory floyd is getting lonely

 

[ShredCow]

No lah! Well, okay, not QUITE a metal cookie... metal cookie. Geez. Dude, that sounds pretty good!

If you take an Edge and examine it, it's actually not one SOLID mass. Flip it over and it looks like someone has scooped out the metal here and there.

And yes, you're sort of right in that the Edge is like a metal cookie because the pivot knife is a separate piece of hardened steel that is attached to the base plate. This is how a schaller floyd rose is made too.

Eh, the gotoh might look similar to the TRS stuff but what it's made of is different. Hardened steel makes ALL the difference. And the Gotoh's baseplate is just as thick as the OFR's, which has been serving players for decades... you'll read plenty of stories about 20 yr old OFRs that have not worn out.

If you're going to mod the G400 (and why not?! It would BALANCE out the SG too!) just go for a Gotoh Floyd (180 sgd?) but make sure you get the locking nut that bolts onto the neck top-down so you don't have to drill 2 big holes in the already weak SG neck.

Tommy Iommi has his SGs with floyds yes? Mighty tasty.

 

[Everdying]

yea, Iommi has a couple of custom shop SGs with floyds...but its mostly used just for 1 song - mob rules.

this is my Gibson SG-90 with factory Gibson imprinted Schaller...very rare piece...only read about it in a book so my hands got itchy...took me only 10 short yrs to track one down
am still scouring ebay and google etc...still havent seen another one since...most are tune-o-matics or steinbergers.

just that its a 25.5" scale...Iommi's are all 24.75"...which is why my hands getting itchy to mod a G-400...
either that or try to hunt down a kramer nightswan or kramer proaxe in good cheap condition...and uhh they're never cheap

i had a peavey vandenberg before which was almost perfect, 24.75" also but with a kahler...so it eventually had to go...

 

[ShredCow]

That's a beauty! Looks very sleek and deadly... You should post it on sevenstring.org! There a whole bunch of metalheads there and they will dig this A LOT.

Does it neck dive as much as a regular SG?

 

[Everdying]

post it on sevenstring? but its a 6-string
you shouldve seen its condition when i bought it used...

that 'pickguard' is just a template of an ori guard as i bought it without...underneath it is partly bare wood from years of abuse...and the original color is alpine white...the ugly yellow is what yrs of cigarette smoke and alcohol do...
not my doing tho...i got it like that.
then of cos my itchy hands had it refinished in nitro black and filled up the tone knob so it only had that single vol...and of cos EMGs...SLV / 85 combo...yea a steve lukather wannabe
and doesnt neck dive...plus i have another 2 Gibson SGs that dont neck dive.

 

[ShredCow]

SS.org has Standard Guitars sections. The metalheads would LOVE it... though I'm sure your guitar is more than metal.

That's pretty cool actually... it has a lot of playing I guess? I have a soft spot for single pickup guitars.

I've never played an SG that didn't neck dive... or at least weren't neck heavy.

Say, so, G400 to floyd-ed... come on man. Do it!

 

[Everdying]

well the floyd obviously is a nice counter-balance.
the other 2 SGs of mine that dont neck dive, 1 has a maestro vibrola, another has a heavy ass body that weighs 4.1kg...somewhere towards the lower scales of what a LP weighs.

there are a couple of cheap G-400s i see around...but the price of a gotoh floyd + refinish would cost more than the guitar

anyway, the only international 'guitar' forum i usually visit is everythingsg.com.
used to the gibson / epiphone forums, but got bored.

 

[ShredCow]

Can lah. Just get started on it. Take your time and before you know it, you'll have a nice modded G-400. Floyded.

 

[ShredCow]

Have ordered the following:

Stainless Steel Saddle Screws
Stainless Steel Locking Nut Bolts
Stainless Steel Saddle Lock Bolts
Titanium String Lock Blocks

Let's see how these parts factor in terms of tone, durability and look.

 

[loldude333]

Oooooh when're they coming in? Can't wait to see them and 'hear' them hahaha!