Bass drum double strokes

[Bor]

Hi guys,

would like to know your opinions on which is the best technique to use for playing fast double strokes on the bass drum. Based on my knowledge, there are three main techniques or variations of these that most drummers use:

1) Sliding technique - Seems to be most commonly used by most people I've seen. First stroke produced by ball of foot, followed by a quick slide up the pedal to produce the second stroke

2) Heel-toe - First stroke produced by heel, followed by a tap from the toe to get second stroke

3) Swivelling technique - A quick swivel of the feet from side to side to produce two strokes

Personally I use a variant of the heel toe, where I dont need my entire feet on the footboard. My heel comes down for the first stroke but the one actually making the stroke is the ball of my foot. After the first stroke my feet would be in a heel down position, and to make the second stroke, I simply snap my snap my foot back to the heel up position. When played fast its like a rocking motion. I seem to be able to get pretty quick and effortless doubles using this technique, but the only setback is that its difficult to generate powerful strokes with this.

Which do you guys think is the best technique to acquire, and what are the disadvantages or advantages of each?

 

[metzalx]

Dunno what is sliding, but i use toe-heel haha.

 

[Bor]

You use toe heel?

I guess thats the reverse of heel toe, your toe makes the first stroke, then your heel comes down for the second? But wont it feel weird as it seems difficult to assimilate it into your grooves, unless you're a heel-down player...

 

[metzalx]

Dunno leh, actually mine is not really toe heel, on second thought, cuz i dun use my heel at all. More of the part nearer to the toes, then the rounded part...

 

[chud]

just play only...

you'll discover which is best for u and develop your own technique over time

 

[alvinthedrummer]

All technique can work...even a "bad" technique can work if you spend enough time at it....only thing is that a "bad" technique may cause physical problems overtime etc...

So saying this, all the technique you listed above can work....but you just need to decide on one and work at it...

 

[Bor]

Yup I tend to agree that you'll somehow be able to play fast using just raw muscle power without utilising proper technique. However, it usually comes at a cost of hindering your progress in the long run.

That's why I'm a firm believer in researching on a good technique first and foremost before you even begin to practise it, in order to maximise your practise and get best results in the long term.

I understand that all the above can work. I can do heel-toe but I'm just not sure if its the best technique for my progress in the long term, due to as mentioned, lack of power and doesnt really sound clean. Yup hence I need you guys' input, for those who have practised one or more of these techniques, to give your opinion to help me and others in the forum to decide!

 

[plainsman]

comparing sliding and heel toe, sliding is definitely much more matured technique, having been around longer.

i have not seen sliding able to produce consistent 16-notes on one pedal though.

i've seen some clips where heel-toe based footwork can produce closer to consistent 16-notes.

mostly is staccato-ish (du-du ... du-du )

tony royster has fantastic right foot, he uses sliding, and yes, its still sounds like this.



as a contrast, look at thomas lang's footwork.

the thing really wasted for me is i wished i had asked him, without that sonor special heel toe pedal, could he do a 16-note double pedal beat on one foot.



there is another guy who gets close too (think on youtube, ill go search and post up later)


currently, heel toe appears to be very year 2000 and beyond technique. guys if u can, woodshed it BIG TIME, it'll pay off.

classic 180bpm-esque 16notes is past point of saturation. i believe in the next few years, it might become pretty standard to get 360bpm 16notes (or 180bpm 32nd notes) with either combo of pedal (dualist n such), heel-toe or both.


SHED ON!!!! :lol:



ps. swivelling is pretty useful too. again, i have not seen anyone getting any real speed out of it.

however, it has one advantage over sliding in that, the time delay between the 2nd hit and the 1st hit of the next double is less than sliding.

there are variants of sliding where the foot slides less too, guess it is born out of wanting to reduce the time lag.


cheers!!!




ps. 2

for me personally, as i am from class of '90s drumming i've gotten sliding as part of my repertoire. my approach to double pedal is good ol' clean technique ie. heel down, heel up and variants of it.

there is a legit speed limit. but the advantage is that notes are as clean as can be. i don't think i'll ever get a 300+ bpm 16notes with it though.

still, if you get good ol' clean technique up to 190+ to say 200bpm 16notes you pretty much still cover most of the repertoire spectrum for now...but extreme music/metal is expanding its limits and audience's ears these days.. take heed!

 

[plainsman]

found it!


http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?threadid=1014642



he not the only champion (think i saw another fast guy) but this pretty good :lol:

his "heel" is ever so subtle...... heh....

 

[smildrumez]

hey thread starter.....hope this helps... :lol:

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[smildrumez]

oh yeah.....yes....derek roddy uses ELIMS TOO!!!!!!!

 

[plainsman]

thats interesting..... cos when he came drumfest... he was using axis pedals :lol: :lol: 8O


after watching derek, my take is his is similar to a double stroke on hands.

like the hands, you can get very fast 16notes using double strokes with less effort than singles. it tops out at about 200+ bpm though. and it still sounds like doubles (ta-ta, ta-ta, rather than ta-ta-ta-ta)

thomas lang sounded really smooth, he actually managed to get 16note at 150+ bpm on a single pedal (it is the sonor one with heel toe double pedal feature though)


keep the cool pedal shite coming!!! :lol:

 

[chud]

eliminators!

 

[mel80]

Hmm Derek Roddy's concept of working on the weaker limb first instead of doing it slow for both limbs is interesting.

 

[smildrumez]

he uses elims for practicing and AXIS for gigs!!!!

 

[Bor]

Thanks to all guys for your help, esp plainsman (fantastic link - has given me food for thought regarding playing heel toe) and smildrumez for the vid.

Btw who's the fella in the vid? He's got blazing singles, although in all honesty, his doubles don't seem to be very clean. His off the pedal demo was quite a killer though, without pedal, my legs cant play half of his speed! haha..

 

[alvinthedrummer]

I know there's need to research....but if you've done some surfing around, you should know that there's probably a fairly equal number of drummers playing the various technique. I don't think there's an answer as to which is the best technique...but rather, how to make a certain technique work for you.

Everyone has a different opinion so, you need to just pick one out and try it out for yourself. Sad to say though, to get one technique usable, it'll take quite some time, so the sooner you get started, the sooner you'll realise a technique. I use tap/slide for single foot doubles and because that is almost strictly a double stroke technique I use my ankles to dribble single foot 16ths for consistent sounding singles. When I first started out using tap/slide, my second stroke tend to be louder than the first. but after some experimenting, I was able to clean that up by suspending my leg with my hips...will demo if I make it to the next meetup....if that helps.

Good Luck!

 

[Bor]

Haha Alvin, I fully agree with what you said, when I tried practising the slide technique, the most frustrating thing about it was that I couldnt play the first note cleanly, while the second stroke was overpoweringly loud.

Sometimes I cant even get the first note going as well. Grr... That was mainly why I practised heel toe (but now a bit regret not having enough patience to persevere with sliding as its easier to get clean doubles )
Oh yeah, and I also damaged two socks and caused some blisters on my foot due to friction between with the board while sliding without shoes.

Thanks for the advice maybe I'll try to clean up my heel toe a bit and see where it takes me

 

[plainsman]

bor... dont give up on sliding and go heel toe if u can't get it going

in my opinion sliding should be pretty easy to get, guess you just need to get the footwork down ie. where to start and where/how much to slide etc.

if u can make it for next meetup we'll flood u wif slide demo so u can take home a nifty sliding to move on from



after that, u can learn heel toe as well and compare/contrast the difference




the pedal makes a difference as well

for example, if you use elims and yamaha classic single chain (no matter which era) there is some fundamental difference in the construction.

u need to adjust ur technique slightly for the different pedals.

it shouldnt be that difficult a thing. learning to adjust is a skill drummers should develop, this will allow u versatility on the different gear u'll likely encounter esp when u have to play on someone else's gear (happens quite often)


cheers!!!

 

[alvinthedrummer]

I alway have a pair of shoes next to my drum kit (when i used to practice at home). Practice with shoes becos:-

1) No blisters ever again!
2) If you ever get hired to play a formal gig...imagine wearing a suit and playing barefooted!
3) If you play in a club....high chance of getting splinters and also...chips of broken glass!!

Foot wear: Pick something with flat soles...low-cut court shoes are pretty good...