Bands towards Gig Orgainiser

[Liatena]

in such days where everything seems to be rising.
why not bands in singapore just take a stand? we really couldnt just gig for free for clubs or have us market for them yet reciving less than 20 percent of sales ticket.

how about lets all take a stand. if gig organiser are charging 10 per ticket , we do take 50 percent of what we sold and 10 percent of what they sold. Isnt it fair this way? how long are we singaporeans musicians going to let gig organisers under pay us? just for how long?

whos standing by me?

 

[screamfest]

another thread about gig organizers and bands conflict?
this topic kept on appearing every now and then yet still there isn't much changes made or improvements.

 

[RyanJumpsShip]

i get your point there liatena. The thing is, my concern isnt about money. Its more like. Their goal. If their goal's to help PROMOTE us and let the world see us, i respect that. But if their goal's just mainly about the *chicchiing*, then i think that's just like... I'm not saying its WRONG. They can make a living. But if that's their main goal, then it's no improvement to the scene at all.

About being paid, i'm very realistic. I think if you're really good. Caracal, WGB, AVA, Firefight.. yea. You're damn right you can think about being paid. New bands? Young ones just a year old or some less then that, i dont think so. For bands like this. It's a PRIVILEGE playing to a crowd. For me. It's all about starting small and working your way up.

Going back to my part on organiser's intention and goals.

Take for example. You join the list of like, 15 bands playing and you're made to sell 25 tics. *Nth wrong literally*
But no posters from them to help you promote it, no announcements or what so ever about the gig to the public FROM THEM on soft or anywhere else, isnt it a little obvious of their intentions here?

 

[Liatena]

come to think of it yea.. your right D:

 

[+VE65]

in such days where everything seems to be rising.
why not bands in singapore just take a stand? we really couldnt just gig for free for clubs or have us market for them yet reciving less than 20 percent of sales ticket.

how about lets all take a stand. if gig organiser are charging 10 per ticket , we do take 50 percent of what we sold and 10 percent of what they sold. Isnt it fair this way? how long are we singaporeans musicians going to let gig organisers under pay us? just for how long?

whos standing by me?

I hope tiz reply ain't gonna open a can of worms.

I dun speak for all gig organizers but for my group (+VE65 and PROPAGANDA MACHINE).

Payment for bands? Sure. Definitely. I agree that bands must be paid. But... can the bands deliver? Can they bring in the fans? Will enough people come and PAY to watch them? Simple demand and supply.

Bands have rehersal time and maybe some transport money whilst practising for the gig. Organizers have venue & equipment rental as the 2 major costs to consider. Both have their costs considerations. Unfortunate but thats the economics of doing a show.

Simple math.... $8 a ticket (my std price for local shws) x 100 people (usual turn out) = $800 tix sales. Venue rental eg. Arts House $800 + equipment rental $700 (average) = $1,500 cost (excluding any other costs). $1,500 - $800 = $700 loss. How to make money?

One of the shows I did, the band I invited asked for $50. I told them "sure" but provided we have some money left over. What happened? Only like 5 of their "supporters" turned up. Best part all didn't go into the venue. Inside they played to an almost empty dance floor. You tell me how to pay them?

Thats why I'm encouraging bands to organize their own shows then they would understand the difficulties that we orgainizers go through. I know there are some "unethical" organizers out there who exploit "hard up" bands by asking them to sell a certain number of tickets but thats an old story.

I dun care if you believe me or not but I've not made a single cent from all the shows I've organized so far. My first gig after a hiatus of 10 years cost me $2,000 lost (this show I paid EVERYONE from band to crew). Last few shows I did we made losses of anywhere from $100 to $300 each. But glad to say managed to pay bands $30 for one show.

Comeback Kid? Ha ha thank God made a $300+ lost only. Indonesia promoter? Owed like USD8K of debts and now being sued by everyone.

Besides having to worry if we can sell enough tickets to cover costs. We get the worst headache of all... gatecrashers. These "friends" (or freeloaders) will always turn up at every single gig and use their "friendship" with you to try and gain free entry. Or else its the band asking for free enrty for their friends. How to be diplomatic and not offend people?

Surely I must be making money if not why still do it? Ha ha thats why organizer is a thankless job. Its all about believing in the music, the scene and looking at the fan's faces enjoying themselves. Itz alot of things that cannot be explained by words..Don't believe me? I dun care.

Frankly if you are in this for the money. Then you will be sadly disappointed. Dun diss all promoters/organizers.

Plz orgainze your own shows then start this kind of thread. Thats what alot of bands are doing now.... and itz a good sign. You get to play your own show... u all split the costs. You end up not feeling exploited by unscrupulous organizers.

Cheers!

 

[stoinkkid]

well i did organise gigs before and some of the bands who just started out expect cash. sometimes its not about the profit and yeah selling tickets is kind off a good thing to start off when youre in a band coz its like you sell tickets to let the person who bought your tickets too see you play. then slowly the growth of fans grow. most of the famous local bands do really started out like this. so yeah even though i organise gigs i can see that some gigs are too much by selling 30 tickets and each tickets can cost more than 10 bucks. so yeah this thread should really stop.

 

[Liatena]

okay sorry guys i didnt thought of that . guess i got too hot headed with one gig orgainiser attitude.

D:

 

[H3RMAN]

I think this is a good idea. Not only does it motivates the band to get ticket sales as they're earning a portion of it, it is also fair to the band as it credits them for their efforts. However, it defeats the purpose if this stance is adopted but the ticket prices are increased.

Personally, I think gig organizers should take advantage of sponsors to fund the event. Maybe have Milo set up a van there or something or maybe call an Ah Pek to sell snake oil during intermissions. haha. Whatever it is, the idea is to move the source of income from "alleged enslavement of musicians" to event sponsors.

Then, maybe there can be a trade off of income from ticket sales and sponsors. So, ticket prices can be reduced. Even better, if the even is fully sponsored, musicians can perform for free.

Sure, it will be ad laden, but I don't think it's as irritating as internet pop-up ads.

 

[G-Zero]

okay sorry guys i didnt thought of that . guess i got too hot headed with one gig orgainiser attitude.

D:

errrrrmmmm... me? well... no worries... we make mistakes all the time. sometimes im wondering if what im doing is right or not too.. perhaps i should give all the money i have in the bank to organize a gig and that will be crazy.

I think this is a good idea. Not only does it motivates the band to get ticket sales as they're earning a portion of it, it is also fair to the band as it credits them for their efforts. However, it defeats the purpose if this stance is adopted but the ticket prices are increased.

Personally, I think gig organizers should take advantage of sponsors to fund the event. Maybe have Milo set up a van there or something or maybe call an Ah Pek to sell snake oil during intermissions. haha. Whatever it is, the idea is to move the source of income from "alleged enslavement of musicians" to event sponsors.

Then, maybe there can be a trade off of income from ticket sales and sponsors. So, ticket prices can be reduced. Even better, if the even is fully sponsored, musicians can perform for free.

Sure, it will be ad laden, but I don't think it's as irritating as internet pop-up ads.

I did thought of that for future events. The gig I'm organizing now it's just our first gig (which is not quite a gig as there are clubbing time for youths also). Soon if I ever got good lobangs, people can enter our gig for just $2 if that ever happens that is.

 

[+VE65]

okay sorry guys i didnt thought of that . guess i got too hot headed with one gig orgainiser attitude.

D:

Understood Itz this fire (or rage) that burns inside all of us that keeps us going. Just direct this emotion towards finding a positive solution.

Organize your own shows! Costs anywhere from $200 to $2000 to do a show in Singapore. Get a few bands to share the costs and it can work out to like $10 bucks per band member (depending on how many bands are sharing).

Sponsorship is a good solution. Difficult to secure but not impossible depending on your genre and who u approach. Any monetary help is always welcomed.

Good luck and ROCK ON!!!

 

[biopromax]

Yeah. Split the cost. Make a street team , gather bands who is willing to share cost.
Sponsorships is not bad either.

 

[lepak]

atleast this thread has decent point of views haah

 

[RudyScarface]

-

atleast this thread has decent point of views haah

till now...

 

[RudyScarface]

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i think we should all rally up and arson the organisers who just thinks about money. okay kiddin. maybe not?

hmm, well im very against the 'pay for unsold tickets' rule.
hmm i mean if i can organise gigs and give all the bands that are playing for my show the option of selling the best they can without having to worry about 'paying for unsold tickets' then i dont see why the other organisers cant do the same.

i learned that from exe from firebrands and ill never forget what he said.

its fine if you wanna pass tickets to bands to sell. the whole point of tickets is that so at least someone will be there when you're up there playing.

but i just cant stand organisers who just slaps you with 20 to 25 tickets, expects you to clear them all, charges you for unsold tickets, who doesnt even bother promoting the gig by poster,posting on the forum on the gig details or at least having the basic courtesy of informing bands on who they will be playing alongside with.

sadly, nowadays i notice that new bands have to go through this ridiculous stage of bandlife by paying $$ to organisers (cause they fail to sell all their tickets) just for that very VERY tiny amount of exposure (thanks to the lack of promotion about the gig and besides why would they get their asses off and promote when its a gurantee $$ for them since bands have to pay for unsold tickets)

the best advices i can give is to first sit and realise in what you're about to do, you're about to give bands the chance to go out there and finally play after god knows when they have been searching for a slot.

so take pride in what you are doing, promote anywhere and everywhere even if its the smallest gig ever so that these deserving people in your eyes, gets the extreme attention/exposure that they deserve.

Get established bands playing alongside a few new bands. thats always a good thing having a good lineup for a gig adds a certain credibility. dont just get any band, listen to their songs, do you think they should be playing live?

look at guyrence, gets mocked almost everyday on soft (but talks really good on the phone though i swear), probably got scolded by TONS of words that starts all the way from A-Z by people with their names starting from A-Z, but look at him. he doesnt force bands to pay for unsold tickets.

if he were to organise a gig at beats merchant and there is another guy organising at dxo but with a criteria that you must clear 20 - 25 tickets. i rather choose guyrence anyday even though beats is so small that my guitar bag made it look like it was damn crowded.

i think im so offtrack from the original post but im just so bored and its such a hot sunny day, god. all the aircons went on a rally instead of us. whats up with the global warming man, did the sun lit himself on fire or something. wait it IS on fire.

well. see? this is what happens when you play with matchsticks and there isnt any fire extinguisher around.

sun gets caught on fire, no extinguisher, million years later, humans were created, i became black thanks to the heat. bloody hell. its 12.41pm now.

 

[Raistmar]

Payment for bands? Sure. Definitely. I agree that bands must be paid. But... can the bands deliver? Can they bring in the fans? Will enough people come and PAY to watch them? Simple demand and supply.

/QUOTE]


If you're the organizer, wont you have the power to choose the band thats going to play?

And what praba/rudy said, is true, some organizer (not all) wholly depends on the band to promote the band and thats unacceptable.

 

[H3RMAN]

What I think organizers are concerned about is whether the bands can draw in the crowd.

Right?

Sure, if the bands are already fairly established (among other things, with a Myspace account where your top friends are NOT solely your bandmates), I think it would be easier to get supporters. It would be a stage whereby people come not because they're your friends and that they're coming to avoid that "Where were you last Saturday?" in class next week. People -total strangers- will come to listen to your music because they enjoy it.

Now, this is probably not easily achieved if there's no platform for the bands to showcase themselves before they're established. Sure, there's places like soft, youtube, myspace, etc etc to promote your bands, but a live performance speaks volumes more than these other outlets can.

Because of this, I think this is where the problem lies for most local bands. It might be all down to your rotten luck, but perhaps more can be done to address this matter. Perhaps bands could help each other? Mutual help always gets the job done faster! 'Gotong-royong' as Malays call it. Maybe they can support each other at gigs or something? If bands could somehow get themselves more initial publicity, they would be able to sell those tickets, provided they are reasonably priced.

Which brings us, by no accident, to the feasibility and practicality of having sponsors. Maybe someone can try to have...I dunno...a Davis guitar roadshow at a gig perhaps? As +VE65 mentioned earlier, it is possible to get sponsors, just not that easy.

So, what I'm thinking is that if bands work together towards the common goal and organizers take the two pronged approach (sponsors + band sales), perhaps the gigs will be more successful. Perhaps, in future, if it goes well, we could even have fully sponsored gigs. You never know...

 

[AEnimic]

If the organiser does a good job to promote his or her show, then that's excusable. I mean, you make a loss as an organiser also based on your own poor marketing skills. The bands will definitely bring friends in and such. But you as an organiser sometime just ride the high seat and expect the bands to bring in supporters in the thousands.

I can't understand why the organiser are lazy themselves sometimes.

And yes,I'm not referring to ALL promoters, but the majority that are going around making gigs for small bands and such. Working hand in hand is the best solution.

As much of an infection he is, I think GUYrenCE did quite a good organiser job (other than the hijacking of threads). He went around SOFT to inform about the show and kept bumping it up.

Organisers are doing a great job right now, but to make our blooming scene, I just think that it should work both ways. The band must know how to market themselves too. And stop asking for money if you just played for just 1 or 2 years. Your friends say that you're good doesn't mean you actually deserve to get money for it. EARN YOUR REP FIRST!

 

[freemansland]

Reply to saving someone-
i get your point there liatena. The thing is, my concern isnt about money. Its more like. Their goal. If their goal's to help PROMOTE us and let the world see us, i respect that. But if their goal's just mainly about the *chicchiing*, then i think that's just like... I'm not saying its WRONG. They can make a living. But if that's their main goal, then it's no improvement to the scene at all.

About being paid, i'm very realistic. I think if you're really good. Caracal, WGB, AVA, Firefight.. yea. You're damn right you can think about being paid. New bands? Young ones just a year old or some less then that, i dont think so. For bands like this. It's a PRIVILEGE playing to a crowd. For me. It's all about starting small and working your way up.

Going back to my part on organiser's intention and goals.

Take for example. You join the list of like, 15 bands playing and you're made to sell 25 tics. *Nth wrong literally*
But no posters from them to help you promote it, no announcements or what so ever about the gig to the public FROM THEM on soft or anywhere else, isnt it a little obvious of their intentions here?

Firstly, i think its unfair to put all the workload to organiser, many event organisers have other major events or business-development to worry about. Who would want to just organise band showcases for small bands? Many organisers have a common dream! All of us wants to bring down international bands and get good bands to do open show. Honestly, do you think we have 24hours a day to stay on the computer. Manpower is a factor, true enough we have 55 ambassadors and still finding difficuilities coordinating with every single event, cause many are deploying to different areas of the events such as motivational camps, clubbing parties as well as band showcases and concert. So i would like all band members to understand the difficuilities of event organisers. We do not carry the band list 24/7 a day. Please be understanding.

With regards to selling tickets, we do conform to a 25 tickets selling policy! We have proven to the public with this adoption , per event of turn out 400 people excluding bands+guest list. Just recently at homeclub 19th april FREELOVIN, which appeared on the events list on TODAYPAPER. So please A&P is done. As for absorption of tickets. 1 perfect testimonial i can give, ask lepak. They only brought down 2 people and i saw 10 of their friends sitting out homeclub, i addressed the problem and brought all of them in for free. SO PLEASE, not all organisers are as screwed up as you think. It would be unfair if you relate us to some organisers that conform to the "diedie ABSORB" tickets, cause personally i know which organisation are you guys refering to which is tarnishing every single organisation reptuation due to his inability of doing a perfect PR job.

Not only that, we have paid small bands up to $80 dollars. Averagely ranging $20-$50 as well. I think the person that post this up are just trying to shooo away organisers from organising event by making precarious assumption! Maybe you can check our overheads first before demanding such a ridiculous pay-out cause honestly, its easy to organise! But how many is exactly makes it successful. All boils down to 1 word. MARKETING.



Cheers!

 

[Raistmar]

Firstly, i think its unfair to put all the workload to organiser, many event organisers have other major events or business-development to worry about... All boils down to 1 word. MARKETING.

With all due respect, you cant expect the bands to market/publicize for your event, its not like bands dont have any other important things to do either. Forget about band payment for a second. I can understand why you'd want the bands to sell tickets, it forces them to spread the word around, but if your events always get a huge crowd, then why the need for such an amount of ticket sales from bands?

And no, I'm not trying to defame freemansland or any other organizers, I just want to understand how everything works.

 

[freemansland]

Firstly, i think you actually misunderstand Freemansland approach. Let me restate my point we have roughly 60 ambassador currently and if you go to Freemansland you can see a list of events we are having. There will be a private ambassador page where we give constant updates on events information where they do WOM. So please, bands are not only doing their own publicy! It would be totally unfair to make such a statement base on your assumption. And true, maybe you should go and ask bands that have played for us we dont comply to the " DIE DIE 25 tickets". We do average turnout. If all sells 25 tickets and 1 band hit only 15, then yes we have to exercise principle of fairness. If everyone sells 22, that's the margin. So it depends on situation.

And organisers will not waste their time to invest in bands that are not worth it. This is why we do relatively more A&P only for concerts cause the bigger/better bands deserves this credability and recognition. I think its fair and i hope i have put my point across. Thank you for your time.


CHEERS!