Proving/Disproving the Gibson Myths - Neck Tennons & Hol

M

mudmechanic

New member
A proposal for all the Les Paul owners out their to sort out these two points of discussion that have many people up in arms over Gibson's production techniques/quality control.

It should be possible to arrange for x-rays of guitars to be done, either at a hospital (if we are able to persuade some of the doctors on the forum, the local Polytechs or SISIR (the standards intitute). The cost should be worth it to confirm whether any of us has a 'good' or crappy Les Paul. I have a Les Paul Special, a Jnr model with two pichups and no maple cap so the 'hole problem' isn't of any interest, but the neck tennon is.

How many of the Forum users have les pauls and wsould like to find out the truth for themselves?

cheers,

Mark.
 
No need to go to the trouble to find out about the holes. The Les Paul forum itself already confirms the existance of them.

from www.lespaulforum.com:
The bottom line is that there are nine (9) weight relief holes in production LP Standards, and seventeen (17) in the Class 5 Les Paul, and there is a difference between "dynamic sound chambers" and "weight relief holes".
1.The Les Paul Class 5 is the only Custom Shop model Les Paul that has weight relief holes (17 of them).

2: The Historic 58' & 59' Les Paul's DO NOT have weight relief holes (the lightest mahogany available is used for these guitars).

3: None of the Custom Shop Historic Reissue Les Paul Goldtop models have weight relief holes.

4: The Les Paul Elegant has the dynamic sound chambers, not weight relief holes. The Les Paul Class 5 has the weight relief holes, and not dynamic sound chambers.

5: Gibson U.S.A. does drill weight relief holes in their Les Paul models. They drill 9 holes, versus 17 for the Les Paul Class 5.
According to Gibson, they have done extensive testing and as long as the holes are not near the bridge or tailpiece (which would affect sustain), they do not have an adverse impact on tone.





If you still not convinced or thinking maybe you are lucky and have one that doesn't have the holes, I guess you can go spend money and take the x ray lor.
 
The information about the weight relieff holes has been confirmed by Gibson? My problem with information placed on internet sites is the reliability of the source (much like that of news articles). I had read of the Les Paul Elegant with the sound chambers and wanted to confirm that there was not a misunderstanding of the two.

The neck tennon issue is a different one, but may still be possible to confirm whether the tennon is a poorly fitting one as in the photo supplied by Malcolm. The early Les Paulks were thougt to be superior because of the long tennon joint as there was a larger gluing area than on the short tennon ones, rather than the point that the tennons may have been ill fitting. Any suggestions on how to work this out. X-rays can be used but will have to be interpreted properly.

cheers,

Mark.
 
Sound chambers and weight relief holes are totally different.
This is a sound chamber inside a les paul elegant
251_p21914.jpg


on the other hand, weight relief holes look like this

wrh.jpg
 
Actually, no need for a hospital x ray. Just ask any of your friend who are RPs at the Singapore Ferry Terminal to let your run your guitar thru the X-Ray machine there.

Or any other place which has it.
 
Ya I know of myth busters but here we trying to prove not disprove mah haha. Okok myth busters. Do they show that show over here? I haven't been watching much television.
 
Re: Proving/Disproving the Gibson Myths - Neck Tennons &

mudmechanic said:
A proposal for all the Les Paul owners out their to sort out these two points of discussion that have many people up in arms over Gibson's production techniques/quality control.

It should be possible to arrange for x-rays of guitars to be done, either at a hospital (if we are able to persuade some of the doctors on the forum, the local Polytechs or SISIR (the standards intitute). The cost should be worth it to confirm whether any of us has a 'good' or crappy Les Paul. I have a Les Paul Special, a Jnr model with two pichups and no maple cap so the 'hole problem' isn't of any interest, but the neck tennon is.

How many of the Forum users have les pauls and wsould like to find out the truth for themselves?

cheers,

Mark.
Click to expand...


may I know what's the point of doing that?

If your guitar have the holes, your heart will break. If it doesn't have holes, it doesn't suddenly make your playing or tone better :D

I guess you just have to accept that fact if you opt to use LP.
If you don't, get other guitar lah.
 
The point is very simple and not related just to this topic.

What I am suggesting is that mwe prove these points to ourselves rather than believe wholesale what is put on the web and posted in forums. If you have removed the maple cap on your Les Paul then you knbow for a fact that the weight reduction holes are there. If you have removed the neck joint, then you also know the quality of the joint. Otherwise we are repeating points of view that are being passed around on the web, some of which (not all) are false.

Too much information in disseminated second, third hand or even more removed from experience and this weakens the argument. i will not cry if the neck tennon on my Lp is like the one in the photo, but if it is not, I would like others to know that it is not and that I can prove it.

Forums are meant to help the people who come into the field with little knowledge to improve and understand the field better. They will not be able to make informed choices if the information they are basing it on is flawed.

Sorry the spiel is so long, but I hope it makes sense.

cheers,

Mark.
 
It's really good that you want to learn independently and promote such a concept. But, here are some reality checks:

A luthier (luthiers are higher than techs in the industry) is putting his credibility on the line. Literally, that means his career. If his post is BS, then his reputation will be ruined. Simple as that.

Also, yours truly has posted possibilities to why the opposition's answers are flawed and biased. I also pointed out his agenda in defending Gibson, fyi. It's in a subtle format however, so you need to read between the lines.

I sure hope this is not some sort of a personal attack. Go do your investigation, and post it here at SOFT. Don't be bitter or in denial when the results aren't in your favour.
 
Extract from the Gibson forum

Hi Michael,

Gibson USA began this ca. 1982. The Les Paul Classic has always had the weight relief holes since it was introduced ca.1989. Thank you for the inquiry.

Customer Service
Gibson Guitar Corp.
1-800-4GIBSON
Click to expand...

source : http://www.gibson.com/relations/forum/index.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=3&tid=32830

The Smartwood LP Studio is indeed chambered, it is not the same weight relief holes as used on the LP Standard, Classic, and regular Studio models. This is the correct spec for this Smartwood model.
Gibson Customer Service
1-800-4GIBSON
service@gibson.com
Click to expand...
Source : http://www.gibson.com/relations/forum/index.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=3&tid=31173
 
You guys are strange. I asked a simple question whether other people would like to prove/disprove a theory for themselves and you have turned it into a which hunt. My apologies but i am/was an engineer and always like to understand things that are said and shownj to me. If you see this as some sort of personal attack then there is nothing I can do.

I would like to know myself whether the guitar i have (a mahogany bodied Les Paul Special) has a poor tennon joint so that i am able to pass this information on to others in the forum. Others may7 wish to do this a s well so i posed the question.

cheers,

Mark.
 
Hmmm.. try the singapore ferry terminal. :) I'm sure that if you go during the non - peak hours when the BOS or COS isn't there, the RPs will just let you do it... beside you will need to run the guitar thru anyway. Just go in and ask. SHouldn't be a problem.

PS: Seen my guitar in that before... she was really sweet looking... :)
 
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