Old keyboard not working / Digital piano for beginner pianist

[triface]

Hi everyone.

TL;DR: Keyboard not powering on. Workable? I want a digital piano / keyboard that emulates action of an acoustic as cheap as possible (open to buying second-hand). Suggestions?

I've been playing guitar for about 4 to 5 years now, and recently I've had an interest in learning to play the piano.

I dug out my elder sister's Yamaha PRS-11 (Bought about 25 years ago. NOT a typo. ) a few months ago to find out that it may not be working anymore, which really disappoints me. So, I'm looking to buy a new keyboard! But before that...

Is my keyboard salvageable?
Edit: I just tested it with new batteries and it didn't work. Could be an open circuit or the switch could be faulty. Approximately how much would it cost to get these checked out?

Getting a new keyboard
To be prepared for the worst case scenario, I've been doing some research on new keyboards.

I would like to first start off by saying that I honestly have no gauge of the prices, other than the 61-key 'starter keyboards', which I know for a fact are going for like $100 - $200. I've looked around some websites (I remember going to the Casio one yesterday.), but I haven't really been paying attention because I would like to get some recommendations to start off my research first.

I believe I will focus mainly on classical music, though I might move into the zones of electronic every now and then just for giggles. I understand that this might mean buying a weighted 88-key keyboard, which I'm fine with.

Also, as a result, it is moderately important for me that the piano sounds are at least tolerable, and not...fake-sounding. Budget still comes first, but after that it's this.

It's okay for the other instruments that may be programmed into the keyboard to not be very good, because those won't be my focus. Once again, I might just go mess around with them when I'm bored, but I really do see myself concentrating more on classical music.

I would like to keep my spending to a minimum, and while my previous unedited post stated a budget of $350, it has come to my realisation that it's probably extremely naive to think I can get a keyboard that emulates an acoustic piano realistically at such prices. I'm also open to the idea of getting a used keyboard.

I will most probably be using the digital piano only for home use, and just for playing and learning. I'm not very interested in music production, being a one-man-band and portability is not an important factor in my purchase, because I don't see myself bringing it around much.

However, it would be great if it is compact (Or at least not so huge that I might as well have gotten an acoustic in the first place) because my house does not have much space, which is the reason why I'm not looking at getting an acoustic piano in the first place, in addition to the maintenance fees and stuff.

So, my question is this: Any recommendations?

I apologise for the huge wall of text, but I think it's evident I've got quite a few questions.

Thanks in advance!

Edit: Might have not made this clear. My budget is not limited to $350! Just mentioned it because I was being stupid for thinking I could get a digital piano for $350.

Edit 2: Just tried with new batteries, but it didn't work. :/

 

[Cheez]

You do have a challenge for your budget. My recommendation is either Casio (not so good sound if you are going low end) or Yamaha DGX series (lower end ones) - which come with pretty decent piano and bread-and-butter sounds.

 

[triface]

Hm. I was actually looking at the Casio CDP-100. Found some Youtube videos and I think the sound's okay. Maybe it's not top-notch (Honestly they all sound the same to me, having only been concentrating on guitar the last few years), but it doesn't bother me.

I've checked a few music schools and stores and this is their cheapest digital piano. The lowest I got was $699 from my current music school. Is it a good price, or should I look around more?

The Yamaha DGX is a little out of what I'm willing to spend.

If the Casio CDP-100 isn't a very good choice, what other digital pianos are there that are available in this price range?

Edit: How does the Yamaha NP-30 compare? It seems it's one of Yamaha's lower-end digital piano. Haven't checked the price, though. Will do later!

Edit 2: Oh nevermind. The Yamaha doesn't have 88 keys.

Edit 3: Hm. I just checked out the Korg SP170 and it's definitely in the price range of the Casio CDP-100 ($738.75 @ City Music). The speakers do seem to be better and the keys don't seem to have the same annoying clicking sound as the Casio CDP-100. Is the Korg SP170 a good choice? Does it usually go for much more ($985 is struck out on the City Music website)?

 

[triface]

Hm. Any help anyone? Any advice is fine. I'm currently in the midst of collecting as much information as I can.

Just edited some parts of my post. I would also like to note (I just remembered after reading the other thread. :/) that eventually I should be taking exams for classical piano, and I was wondering if any of the keyboards mentioned above would be able to last me a long time.

I'm actually pretty interested in the Korg SP170 because it seems to be better than the Casio CDP-100. However, the lack of a MIDI in actually worries me. I understand that a MIDI in allows you to control the keyboard with another keyboard, or with a computer. I'm almost definitely not going to get another keyboard in the near future, though being able to play the piano with just a computer would be pretty neat, I guess. Probably wouldn't use it much, because I actually don't see the point.

Would that be a feature I would be using much? Do any of you with a digital piano use the MIDI in feature a lot?

In summary:

1) Is the Korg SP170 good in terms of sound and action?
2) Korg SP170 and Casio CDP-100. Which would be a better choice? More or less the same price at the moment.
3) Is the MIDI in feature important?
4) Are there any keyboards that are in the price range that are just as good, if not better?
5) Do all digital pianos suffer from noisy keys? Or is it just the lower-end? Or even, just specific units in the lower-end range which have this problem due to quality control?

 

[Cheez]

Sorry for not getting back. From your previous post (before you edited it), it sounded like you already made your decision and choice on the Casio.

To answer your question;
1. Ok.
2. Korg SP170. But even better will be Yamaha P series. Don't know the price, but do check them out.
3. Midi in is not as important as midi out in the case of the SP170. Midi in is only important if you need to trigger the sound from your SP170 via another controller, or using a PC. But the few sounds in the SP170 makes sequencing using a computer pretty much useless. There's not much to trigger anyway. Furthermore, there's no mention in its specs about multitimbrality (the ability to produce more than one instrument/patch sound at one time), which again makes midi in pretty much useless. If your intent is to do backing tracks using multiple sounds/patches, then you probably don't want to get the SP170.
4. As said, check out Yamaha P series.
5. No. Depends on the manufacturer, the price etc.

 

[triface]

Thanks for the reply!

I think you make a good point about the MIDI in. In such a case, if let's say we have a MIDI in, what actually are we able to do? Can we only playback with the sounds that are programmed into the piano?

Actually, I've checked with a few shops and the Yamaha P series are at least $1000, which is out of my budget.

 

[soft]

MIDI OUT = Sending performance information out
MIDI IN = Receiving performance information into

Since most digital pianos have limited sound patches, the midi in is not that useful.

 

[triface]

Ah, sorry. I think I phrased my question wrongly. >.>

If let's say I have a MIDI file that only says play some piano, that would be fine if there's a MIDI in, right?

Another question I have is...let's say I have a keyboard with a lot of sounds, and I get it to playback some MIDI with a lot of notes and sounds in the background. The amount polyphony the keyboard has would have to be taken into account. Am I correct to say that?

I think I'm digressing a little, so I'll try and get the discussion back on track. Any recommendations for shops that sell digital pianos at good prices? Any for shops that sell them pre-owned?

Edit: Information on any sales each year or promotions for any particular digital pianos is welcome too.

 

[kongwee]

From wanna play midi file send from computer to keyboard. At least a midi player in the comp to load midi file and send midi information to your keyboard to play. Note not all keyboard have many sound. You need to take look at the sound bank. If got General Midi label probably they have GM soundbank. A physical connection from computer to keyboard is just USB-cable nowadays. You just need to load the driver in your comp.Of cos, midi port and cable still exist. I think you could find the info yourself.

 

[triface]

Hm. Probably going to sound really stupid, but don't all recent keyboards and pianos have general MIDI? Also, does the presence of MIDI ports mean that a keyboard has general MIDI (and thus the sound bank)?

How does the Suzuki SE-200 hold up to other keyboards in the price range? Here are the specifications: http://www.suzukieurope.com/piano/html/portablepiano.htm

The piano does seem to have more features than would otherwise be commonly available for something in such a price range (currently selling for $999 at Cristofori), but I'm not so sure the action and sound is good. Haven't heard anybody talking about Suzuki at all when it comes to pianos. Are they a good brand to patronise? Or should I just stick to Yamaha or even Casio and Korg? :/

 

[Cheez]

General midi (GM) refers to a standard set of soundbank (128 sounds - from 0 to 127). The sounds will sound different from different sources, but the soundbank (ie the naming of the sounds) is consistent. E.g. Patch no. 1 will always be "Bight Acoustic Piano", 3 will always be "Honky-tonk Piano", 12 will always be "Marimba" etc - but a "Bright Acoustic Piano" will sound different with different instrument, some good, some cheesy. For the cheesiest GM soundbank, use the one from your computer's soundcard!

What this means is that if you have a midi file, as long as it's played back on an instrument with GM soundbank, it will always play the correct patches and instruments. Quality of sounds will differ across different sound sources.

"Midi" (Musical Instrument Device Interface) in itself represents a standard set of "instructions" that allow instruments to "talk" to one another. The MIDI signal will therefore include information like velocity (how hard a note is played), length of time the note is sustained, whether the sustain pedal is down or up, vibrato, expression, mod wheel, aftertouch etc etc. Application - I play a keyboard and I send the midi signal to another device(can be a sound module or computer another synth or whatever) - the keyboard I'm playing will thus be able to control another device (if that's a sound source, it will then produce a sound according to what I'm doing on the keyboard).

Hence, an instrument with a midi port doesn't have to have a GM soundbank as they are different things. And no, not all keyboards have GM soundbank, although most keyboards nowadays have midi ports.

I've not played the Suzuki, but it's out of your budget anyway. With that price, get a Yamaha. Stick to the standard - Yamaha, Roland, Korg. If on a budget, Casio. For excellent touch and no budget constraint, consider a Kawai.

My personal preference - Yamaha for the best touch (esp for piano players), Roland for the best sounds (esp acoustic sounds), Korg for electronic music.

 

[triface]

Wow! Thanks for the insightful post!

Will try my best to stick to the recommended brands.

Another question: Is it advisable to purchase used pianos from Cristofori? I recently found out from their website that they do take in second-hands. They seem to buy and sell a good amount of pianos, acoustic or digital. The impression that I get of Cristofori is that they're a pretty established company, so it'd be safe to buy from them, but the answer seems too simple. :/

 

[triface]

Hm. After doing even more research, I've come to the conclusion that in the event of not being able to find a used one, I'll be getting a Yamaha P95 or the Korg SP-250. The Yamaha is selling at $999, while the Korg is selling at $1003. The Yamaha comes with a tri-pedal system, while the Korg comes with only a damper pedal as far as I know. Both supports half-pedaling.

Not sure if I've said this, but I'm looking for one that feels as close to an acoustic as possible. Korg does seem to resonate when the bass notes are played. Does the Yamaha also do this? The Korg seems to be using the RH3 action mechanism, which is also on their higher-end pianos as far as I know, while the Yamaha's isn't as good as their high-end. Is the Yamaha's action still better? Yamaha does seem to have better sound, too.

Which one would be recommended? At the end of the day, is the resonation really important? It seems pretty cool, but if the action and sound are superior on the Yamaha, then the resonation is probably the least of my worries, no?

The Yamaha also will hold its value longer, so that's also one of my considerations because I might be selling it in the future (Probably in 4-6 years.).

Does the fact that the SP-250 is a 2005 model put it behind the Yamaha?

 

[Cheez]

I have my preference here, and I believe so does every keyboardist. Here is where you need to feel and listen for yourself to decide. Forget about terms like RH3, GH3, PHAIII etc. Forget about half-pedaling (unless you are seriously going to spend time playing Debussy or the like). Spend at least 20 minutes playing on each keyboard using their build-in speakers and with headphones.

 

[SilverBeast]

...After doing even more research, I've come to the conclusion that in the event of not being able to find a used one, I'll be getting a Yamaha P95 or the Korg SP-250...
...Not sure if I've said this, but I'm looking for one that feels as close to an acoustic as possible...

HOLD YOUR HORSES MY FRIEND!!! :-D

Hi triface, you can't compare the feel of P95 to SP250. If you are eyeing on a Yamaha, look for one with GH or GH3 keybeds [GH - P80, P90, P120, P140, P155] or if you you have no issue with space, a Clavinova (there's a used CLP240 in the ads) with a GH3 keybed. Believe me, GH feels different from GH3 although it can be subtle. As Cheez mentioned, spend more time playing the models of your choice before you buy. Hopefully, you'd feel what I mean by "different".

If I may humbly share my own checklist when buying a digital piano - (1) Feel of keys, (2) Piano sample, (3) Sound amplification and very important (4) Like what you buy!

 

[triface]

Hm. I think I run the risk of seriously frustrating the people who're trying to help me. D:

Anyway, the Casio PX-130 is only a $100 more than the P95 and Korg, so I'm seriously considering it too. Would it have a better action and sound?

I understand that at the end of the day, I'll have to just go and try out the pianos myself. But I'm trying to gather opinions and views of the different models so I already have an opinion formed when I enter the shop.

 

[SilverBeast]

No frus man! What's important is getting something that inspires you to keep playing. When I had my CLP270 two years ago, it was that great feeling and I would just keep playing! And to date, the only other key touch I find better than that is on the Kawai MP5!

Anyway, you might want to start with Yamaha and try out their Clavinovas for the feel of keys, piano tone quality and amplification. Happy hunting!

 

[Cheez]

My preference - Casio PX series (even the 300 series) is not comparable to Yamaha P series (lower end), not the mention that the sound is nowhere close. But again - personal preference.

 

[triface]

Hm. Will make sure I compare the PX and the Yamaha.

Anyway...I found out that City Music is selling the Kurzweil SP2XS at 30% off (1.6k+ to 1.1k+). Is it an old model? Worth a look? I checked Youtube, but could only find videos for the SP2X, which requires external speakers.

Here are the specs: http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/Product.php?product=193

I've heard good things about Kurzweil pianos, though I'm pretty sure they were aimed at their acoustics, rather than their digitals. Does anyone have any advice on their digital pianos?

I believe it means that it can't support 3 pedals when it says 1 switch-pedal input and 1 continuous-pedal input, but if it sounds and feels closer than the other pianos mentioned above, that's a worthy trade-off, IMO.

 

[Cheez]

I'm pretty sure you'll be making a trip to City Music anyway to check out the Korg. You can check out the Kurzweil at the same time. Yes, they don't come with build-in speakers, like any synths and stage pianos. Their stage pianos are not bad - esp the Hammond emulation. Again, it comes to preference. Kurzweil tends to be more expensive as well. There will always be those who swear by Kurzweil, those who prefers Roland or Yamaha or Korg etc. You REALLY have to try them all out for yourselves to decide. I would suggest sticking to those suggested. Expanding the range will just make things more confusing for you. Don't go looking for more until you've tried the main ones that you SHOULD be trying out.