(jazz theory) chord extensions

[pianomankris]

Ok so let's get some jazz theory on the go.

First things first - it is necessary to know all the notes in every major scale before you go on. If struggling with this, then let me know and i'll show you some ways of learning/memorising the notes in a specific key. (I think I helped pf with this a while ago. Ask him for a link to the thread. Can't remember which one it was).



OK - the chords in a key follow a pattern. The pattern is:

major minor minor major major minor diminished

This is a fixed pattern for ALL major scales.

We just apply this pattern to the notes of the scale we are using.

So, if in the key of C major, the chords we can use are:

C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim.



Why is D played as a Dm in the key of C? For a basic triad, we take 1 3 5 within the key. If we are in the key of C, and do this beginning on D, this gives us the notes D F A.

compare this to D major. The notes in the D major chord (derived from the D major scale) are D F# A.

So, relative to the key of D, we have flattened the 3rd degree. (F instead of F#).

A chord with a flattened 3rd is known as a minor chord. The structure for a minor chord is 1 b3 5 (PS sorry to the folks who already know this. I need to cover this stuff before going on, though).


The structure for a diminished chord is 1 b3 b5.

Take the Bdim chord. The notes in it are B D F. The notes in the B major chord are B D# F#. Compared to B major, we have flattened the 3rd and the fifth. Hence it is a diminished chord.

PS i'm rushing through this pretty quickly as i'm assuming this is known already by most here.


OK - an extension is a note that is added to a chord that doesn't affect the tonality of the chord (e.g. doesn't affect whether it is major/minor etc etc).

For example, a major 7 chord is an extension of a basic major chord, as it is the basic major structure, only with a note added (1 3 5 7).

To talk in terms of 7th/9th/11th chords is to talk of extended harmony.


Sorry - need to rush off just now - will write more over the next few days.

 

[tangcw00]

very good !

 

[kongwee]

In comping style:
Play a Cmaj7: LH: 1-7(C-B), RH:3-5-7(E-G-B).
If you notice that you play a minor on RH.
Normaly, 1 is no repeated as it is "heavy" enough. Or remove that 7 on the LH, to play easily.

To play with Cmin7: LH:1-7(C-Bb) RH:3-5-7(Eb-G-Bb).
Again a major on RH.

In a song, convert all min to min7. You will notice on your RH just play chord I,IV,and V. Normally, I don't bother to play maj7 and play maj. Lazy me.:mrgreen:

 

[Unconscious]

Thanks pianomankris!

Yeah, if there's a way of figuring out the notes of each scale on the fly (esp the fun chords eg G#7(b9#11) which flashes by in 0.4 seconds) that would be really neat. I also sometimes find myself trying to play a line a tritone above the chord (eg E7 scale over a Bb7 chord) and often touch some off notes here and there due to the slowness of my brain!

 

[Cheez]

There's a need to watch out for excessive dissonance. Maj 7ths are usually heavily dissonant, hence I wouldn't double the 7th note as kongwee suggested. Also, dissonance is reduced if the 7th note is "hidden" in the chords. That means not to put the 7th note as the highest note - unless the melody calls for it.

9th and 11th are more subtle, and hence can be used more universally - almost replacing every possible "non-extended" major chord.

Minor 7ths are slightly different. I still wouldn't put the 7th as the top note, but because it less dissonant than maj7, it in itself can be used universally. I almost replace every minor chord I play with at least a min7th chord. I hardly play a straight ("non-extended") minor or major chord, unless necessary.

Since we are now talking about 7th chords, note that the 2 chords that can use it within a key are chords I and IV. That's because the maj 7th note falls within the key itself. Any other chords within a key will end up with a note that falls outside - still possible in jazz modal scales (but that may be for a more advanced stage). For the basic stage, these are the 2 main chords. I seldom use maj7 for chord I, but very often for chord IV, esp in the following simple eg (4/4 timing):

I - - - (ending of a section) || (new section, usually chorus) IVmaj7 - V/IV - | iii7 - vi7-| and so on...

 

[Unconscious]

In comping style:
Play a Cmaj7: LH: 1-7(C-B), RH:3-5-7(E-G-B).
If you notice that you play a minor on RH.
Normaly, 1 is no repeated as it is "heavy" enough. Or remove that 7 on the LH, to play easily.

To play with Cmin7: LH:1-7(C-Bb) RH:3-5-7(Eb-G-Bb).
Again a major on RH.

In a song, convert all min to min7. You will notice on your RH just play chord I,IV,and V. Normally, I don't bother to play maj7 and play maj. Lazy me.:mrgreen:

I like the way you think Kongwee, it reminds me of the quartal voicings I use when say playing a 7b9 chord with a major triad on the right hand.

Just two questions here - if you always play the 1 on your LH, doesnt that double with the bass player and make it sound too heavy? I always try to play rootless unless its rock or pop - doubling on the bass runs the risk of clashing big time with the bassist who may be trying other stuff (esp when walking) and if the pianist keeps doing that he is liable to piss the bassist off... It also helps to get out of each other's space so the music sounds balanced.

The other thing is, the maj7 and the triad maj have very different sounds (as noted by Cheez in another post). If another harmony instrument in the band plays the maj7 but the pianist doesnt, its another big-time clash. For my money, religiously observing the indicated chords is the way to go.

 

[kongwee]

Ok, my example is for solo or you are the only chord player. In band setting it is different, you guys are better.

 

[Cheez]

Yes, when playing with a bassist, playing rootless is the way to go.

Yes, I also agree with observing the indicated chords, when playing with a band. I've heard quite a number of times when the instruments clash with the vocals - all because of a 7th note. And it sounds...bad... But it's not impossible. Just need to apply with caution when playing in a band. We need to listen to one another and observe restrictions. Sometimes, even a 9th or 11th can cause trouble. I find the main problem is when it clashes with the melody line (ie not necessary vocals, but any instrument playing the main melody).

Improvising solo is one thing; playing in a band is another.

 

[kongwee]

Stick to 7th chord for a moment. Anybody wanna add?

 

[pianomankris]

Ah - some peope here know their jazz a little

Good to hear it guys



Cheez is correct - with major 7 voicings, the 7th is usually not placed as the highest note (unless the melody asks for it). Reason being that the ear hears the dissonance of the major 7th e.g. the RH C to the RH high B note.

Major 7th chords are usually (in simple, 'close' voicings) voiced as the basic major chord (LH root and 5th; RH 1 3 5), but with the RH thumb down a semitone.

So, in Cmajor 7, the RH thumb is a semitone down from C - it plays B.

Gmajor 7 - the RH thumb would play F#.




For now, try to think in terms of the basic major/minor chords - even for some of the jazz chords we will do.


The reason this voicing doesn't sound dissonant is that the ear picks up on the high RH note (the 5th), and the low RH note (the 'thumb down a semitone' note - the major 7th). These two notes produce an interval of a sixth, whch is one of the least dissonant intervals in music (it's an inverted third). Why the ear picks up on these particular notes is complex. I'll explain it in a future thread if anyone is interested.

If this is over some people's heads, as long as you can play the voicing, that will do for now




Look again at the major 7 chord - the RH is playing the III chord. e.g. when playing Cmajor7, your RH is playing the notes B E G. This is an inversion of an Em. Em is the III chord in the key of C.

So, another rule/way of looking at the major 7 chord - keep the LH on root and fifth, and in the RH, play the III minor (iii) chord. This way of thinking makes moving the chord around much easier. Any notes from an Em will make your chord sound like a Cmajor 7 (as long as the LH is playing root and 5th e.g. C and G. Even just the C in the LH will do. But for now, practise the root/5th shape)

But learn the 'basic' voicing first, then think in terms of two chords e.g. I and iii.


In general, assume small roman numerals mean minor, and large roman numerals mean major.





(PS there are easy ways of thinking about ALL jazz chords - even the beastly 7b9#11 lol

But we need to learn about the altered scale first before going on to those chords.)


RE rootless voicings - i'm giving the very basic voicings just now - voicings that will work if you are comping (accompanying) along with a solo instrument.

Don't worry about playing in a band context - there are simple rules for that also. Such as the major 7 rule. Just play the iii chord if your bass player is playing the I root in the bass. You also won't make the major 7 'clash' that Cheez mentions if you do this. Depending on melody notes, of course lol

 

[kongwee]

Tips from my instructor:

When do accompaniment, RH try to stay an octave from F-F key. It may a bit hard as I don't follow to as I used to play C-C region. It is effective to avoid clash with vocals.

 

[Cheez]

The "clash" with vocals, in this case, refers more to dissonance (eg piano plays C4 and singer sings B3). As to the other "clash" you are mentioning, it refers more to the audio space, which is also very important, but different. When 2 instruments play in the same sonic/audio space (ie same range), they tend to compete with each other. Two ways - either avoid the space (use different space), or use proper melodic lines that accompany rather than compete. It not only applies to vocals, but to all instruments playing together. Hence the reason why piano should avoid playing bass and roots when playing with a bass player.

But that's another topic...important topic though.

 

[kongwee]

I think rhythm must mention also. Without it, I think there is no favour. I always find that I must yo my body for swing.

 

[pianomankris]

Cheez - that's why I suggested using the iii chord when thinking in terms of major 7. This way, no C is played in the RH - so no clash with vocalist.


You mentioned the register (range) that the piano part plays in - this also depends on the range of the singer.

All the theory i'm posting can be moved accordingly, depending on situation. But aside from the potential difficulties that could be encountered, the result will be pretty good most of the time.

With regards to the issues being raised here - the problem is that each issue would need to be taken on a case-by-case basis, whereas the theory i'm posting is to act more as a general guide. If you have a specific example in mind, post it, and it can be explained exactly what creates a difficulty in the execution of the piece etc

In my eyes, the intricacies you mention are intricacies that can only be built upon once the basic theory is understood. No point worrying about certain major 7 voicings if the pianist doesn't know first how best to think of a major 7 chord.



Kongwee - of course rhythm is important. It is one of the most important factors of music.

But theory can be learned (and these chords can be practised) without having a rhythmic framework to place them in.

Just as one can learn the meaning of a word without having to write out a paragraph that contains the word.



But don't worry - all this theory is going to be placed in a context - the piece i'm working towards is 'here's to life' - specifically, the Jacintha version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwHcxRVSdXI

It's a good place to learn the basic ii - V - I, in both major and minor keys.

But that'll come after we do all the theory

A pretty sound version of this tune should be easily replicable by everyone who learns the jazz theory i'm giving here.




As a side-note, is anyone familiar with the term 'back-cycling'? (I mean without googling it lol)

Kris