This is what I have an issue with: "I personally dont agree that Four-on-the-Floor is an essential Jazz Pattern." So either you don't agree with the historical roots of Jazz, or you don't understand them in order to dismiss something that is inarguably essential to the basic Jazz pattern. It's not about "fair"; it's about giving accurate information to someone who is asking for it. You may not like the 4-on-the-floor for whatever personal reasons you have, subjective or otherwise, but that doesn't change what is
Allow me to make a suggestion: why don't you do yourself a favor and do some studying on the history of Jazz? Listen to some Jazz from the 30's and 40's. Take special note of the drummer. The difference isn't HOW we are taught; but WHAT we are taught that influence our beliefs. Respect can't be taken for granted.
There is no historcal jazz evidence that Four-on-the-Floor is an essential Jazz Pattern. The Jazz music patten was derived by the African (Bell Pattern) who innately count 1-2-1-2 instead of 4. Blues was derived from it and subsequently the swing. Of course, there are many who argues that the swing was derived from blues. Again, just like this - it becomes a political / religious battle
Four-on-the-Floor is essetially a disco bass pattern. I am not saying that it is wrong or right in jazz. In the 30s, yes, it was practiced by he drummer and as a jazz historian will also tell you - basslines were not prevalent in the 30s, hence the Four-on-the-Floor as an added pulse in the rhythm section.
This changed dramatically when basslines are more prevalent in the rythm section from the mid and late 90s onwards and the mindset shift to view the bass as a drum. Many people dont comp with the bass and the main reason is the mindset view of the bass as a pulse rather than as a tom.
Yes, I listened to all Jazz records from the 30s to the recent fusions and actually study them.
Bruce - It seems you are very adamant to rebutt point for point and without taking consideration for certain points in context. Of course, you have every right and presence to do so. Just like playing jazz where harmony is key, how you play that day depends on who you play, what you play, etc. AND when I mean HOW one is taught refers to more than WHAT is taught. How one is taught is a bigger picture and influencer than WHAT is taught. The same cirruculum taught by 2 different teachers will have different effects on the students BUT I digress. This is not the forum to do so.
I do not want to take on a point-for-point rebuttal here as an impersonal online forum is the worst place to do so. Thoughts and words are often misrepresented and taken out context.
Elvin Jones is famous for turning the swing pattern inside out by accenting on the skip notes and swinging on the 1-3. Is he respecting the historical roots of Jazz ? Is there aything in the historical roots of jazz that says IT MUST BE SWUNG THAT WAY or is swing just a feel.
BTW: Notes are notated in straight notes as dated as music notation history goes BUT you probably know that already. It is just swung by feel. Notated history aside, classic drum books ranging from Alan Stone, George Reed, Jim Chapin never did emphasize on the 4-on-the-floor pattern but that never did stop many drummers from using that as a pulse to strengthen the rhythm section if the strong bassline is not there. There is no right or wrong.
Thanks for your points. It is becoming a religious / political battle which is the same as arguing who is the greatest drummer or what is the best brand of cymbals which I will never participate.
I think I have represented my points enough and I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone or using any of unbased historical roots to influence points across. Whether you swing it the traditional way with four on the floor or without it or turn it inside out like Elvin Jones and HH on the 1 and 3 instead - there is no right or wrong and there is no "disrespect" to the "historical roots" of the music, if you dont play it "the imposed way".
The discerning reader will decide. Especially Jazz outside of the classically trained musician - No one, much less us, is in any authority to dictate or impose. There are no charts and no one single correct way.
How you play it depends on many things, on top of it creativity on top of what is already done. The function of the jazz musician remains to keep time and complement the music and make others sound better than they do.
I will leave it at that and not weigh in further. Let us do our speaking with our music instruments instead.
