inputting external sythns to logic

[zenguan88]

right now i have been trying to input patch datas of fantom x8 as MIDI message to my sequencer.

i know there might be alot of troubleshooting error that i would had faced, but somehow no matter what i just couldnt get the DAW to read patch data from x8.

what is the most common ways people use?
is sysex the way to go? from what i know sysex reads the patch message from the x8 store it and you can then use sysex to input MIDI message into the DAW, is that true?

anyone well verse in the use of sysex or logic's do contact me

 

[Cheez]

What kind of patch data are you referring to that is not transmitted? Do you have an X8 instrument/environment loaded into your Logic?

 

[zenguan88]

okay the thing is that my fantom has 8 banks of 128 preset, i want to use this presets as MIDI data instead of audio data so i can have more editable parameters.

logic can read my x8, what i did is through the GM instrument settings i have select my port to be fantom x8 and select a GM preset, by right i am sure logic should be able to read fantom x8 preset and list the 8 different banks down but it didnt, it only read the GM presets. whenever i play midi over the GM instrument track i can only input MIDI data and now hear any audio at all unless i activavte an audio track.

therefore the only way i can edit my preset in fantom is to record enable my audio and GM instrument track at once and record it, finalise with my MIDI in the GM instrument track and den bounce it out as an audio wave file.

what i want to know is , is there a way whereby my fantom x8 or any external hardware sythns , can act like a software plug in instead. meaning i would be able to just input MIDI data in the instrument track and still hear audio from it without enabling my audio track. making editing in DAW more of a bliss.

 

[soft]

question 1

SysEx is a special set of instruction to initialise a MIDI equipment. for example your Fantom, say you edited the keyboard's sound and performance setting such as bender or pedal, you can copy this "SysEx" and load it into another Fantom to "initialise" it to an exact copy of yours.

the most important point to note here is - SAME MODEL

loading a Juno-D SysEx into a Fantom will not make Fantom produce sound from Juno-D.

so, when you 'dump' your SysEx from Fantom into computer, you are basically making a 'image' of your keyboard setting.

to edit your Fantom's sound via computer, you need a Fantom-X Editor Software.

http://www.roland.com/products/en/_support/dld.cfm?ln=en&dsp=0&iCncd=452

question 2

you will need to install the Fantom patch list into your logic. you will then be able to select your fantom sound from logic. might need to search around to find this file.

 

[Cheez]

You don't need to mess around with SysEx. As soft said in point 2, the key for you is to locate (on the web or Logic support site) the Fantom X8 environment. Once loaded in, you get all the patches you need. The default instrument environment/patch in Logic is GM.

You can, if you have the time, to create your own Fantom X8 environment. It's relatively easy, but very time consuming consdering the number of patches and banks the Fantom has. No point reinventing the wheel when somebody already did the hard work. If you really cannot find it, then you can create it. I can guide you through it. In fact, you should learn to create your own environment, not for Fantom, but just for the learning process. The Logic's instrument environment is very powerful and versatile. It's hard to find something like this in other DAWs. I use it all the time to create templates for my Gigastudio.

 

[zenguan88]

hi guys thanks for the input,

alright i get what you guys talk about the patches and all and i will look up for it. i have read the manual from logic and was told i can load up to 64 custom banks.

anyway what i did right now which manage to settle my problems is to called up something in logic plug ins called the 'external instrument' so i basically change the setting of this plug ins to read from fantom. theres 16 of this GM preset for me to play with and i can select this 16 from 128 of a bank. basically, i have to set up my fantom to combi mode too so for example external instrument 1 will match the sounds of fantom combi track 1, external instrument 2 will match the sounds of fantom combi track 2. however right now the logic cannot read fantom preset and had the tracks names in logic got mess up, the solution to this is like what soft say i had to find the fantom bank online and load it into logic OR to have input it in myself.

so by right my problems would had been solve, and therefore if i had brought another external sythns i had to use another midi port, and customise external instrument to read the other midi port so for eg , fantom is INPUT 1-2, therefore NORD LEAD would be input 3-4 and so on and so forth.

HOWEVER i do realise this is not the only way in doing it and theres something to go about doing it through the enviroment. cheez you are right, i feel the enviroment is complicated to understand, what i do know based on reading the manual is that it set ups all the MIDI port in logic so its like its a digital midi setup. hehs thanks cheez you are welcomed to come my place to look at my setup anything i would had been more than grateful lols.

 

[Cheez]

Hi zenguan, it will be easier to just first call up the instrument environment by double clicking any midi instrument. Then delete all the instruments there (which by default are 16 channels based on GM). Then create a new instrument matching it to your Fantom. You can also change the name, and the icon and icon colour etc. You can keep doing this until your template is created.

Easiest is still locate and download the entire environment. Then you don't have to create anything.

Once you understand the environment, you'll find that it's actually quite simple and very powerful. You can link instruments/patches together by just pulling a virtual wire and plug it into another patch.

My Gigastudio uses 4 separate midi channels. In each midi channel, Giga has 16 channels/instruments (ie total of 64). Within Logic, I can easily create different patches in different midi channels very quickly. So if you have multiple external modules, it's similar to my case. First, you'll have multiple midi outputs. The other thing is your audio inputs, which you seemed to have worked out.

Can't come to you place now - unless you fly me back to Singapore...

 

[soft]

zenguan88, search around this site http://rolandclan.info , might have the patch list you need.

 

[zenguan88]

yea cheez i know you are overseas hahas, but well i guess right here now no one is more familiar with logic settings as you are. yep i will try to read more about the enviroment and brush up on it. i am planning to get some tutorial videos from MACPROVIDEO to try learn more about it. i mean its a waste if i brought logic without going through the enviroment. thanks!

thanks soft i will look up to it now, hopefully i do find it

thanks guys!

 

[zenguan88]

hi cheez i read out about the enviroment and nows knows a little on how to work around it.

this is what i did, firstly i create a new layer(MIDI INSTRUMENT) in enviroment, create a new instrument naming it FANTOM X8, as FANTOM X8 is a multi instrument i create a multi instrument,activate the 16 channels, and link it up to the new instrument(FANTOM X8) that i had created.

as i am connecting the fantom x8 via usb, i have select my ports in logic to be fantom x8.(logic can read fantom x8 via usb). alright so i went to the arrange window now, i tried playing midi notes on it, logic is able to sense the midi notes, however there is still no audio coming up.

i will post some pics as soon as i am able to get it down so it might help you visualise what i am doing hehs!

okay so i suspect the problems come from my fantom x8 so i check its settings, its being set on usb mode, its local is OFF. device number is 17 though(however i guess this does not matters right?)


well i tried it on another external sythn called the quicktime sythn using the above method, it works theres midi input and also audio coming up. i will go get the pics now

 

[zenguan88]

this is my click and port channel which is my overall studio enviroment.




this is the quicktime sythn that i had set up



this is the quicktime sythn close up view of the parameter, notice that the port is off here.



this is how i hook up my fantom x8 via the enviroment



this is the close up fantom x8 parameter, notice the port is set to fantom x8 as i am connecting it via usb.




and lastly this is the arrange window



oh anyway i need to know the answers about going about doing this, as i am wanting to buy a MOTIF XS6, so i do need to like be able to set up fantom to logic first, if not i am afraid XS6 will not be of any use. ! arg

 

[Cheez]

Zenguan, I'm not sure if it's because you are using 2 versions higher than mine of you are using Mac and mine is a PC version. Yours and mine looks similar, but can't I confirm whether you can expand your Fantom X8 midi port to show more information? There should be a midi in and midi out - although in your case both midi in and out would be the Fantom USB. But there should be 2 Fantom USB - one showing midi in and the other showing midi out. Unless, of course, the difference versions made yours and mine different.

Other than that, it should work for you. Try this: don't use Multi-instrument. Instead, use New Instrument (ie calling up only one instrument). Then port this instrument through the Fantom USB to one patch in your Roland by selecting the midi channel. See if you hear anything.

Easiest way is still trying to find the environment for the Fantom which I'm very sure somebody would have already done. There used to be a very good Logic Support Forum, but now I'm not sure. Or else, Roland forums should have it as well. This will save you lots of time. I found the environment for my Yamaha S90. So I'm pretty sure you can find it for your X8.

 

[zenguan88]

nope my port dosent has an input or out put options to it, yep i guess its version different, well i manage to look up for some sythns multis and got some very old sythns instead, like the roland JV5080 etc, SHALL LOOK FOR THE X8 ONE THEN

thanks for your help ! shall keep you updates

 

[zenguan88]

i manage to get fantom x8 enviroment patch, and i had imported it to the enviroment of logic. all works fine, however the downside is i have to activate a audio track to listen to whatever MIDI is being played.

i guess this the best solution for now

oh oh i learn alot during this man, i learn how the enviroment works and all, although i do not know if i am going to use complex MIDI setup now like cheez did but oh anyway...i got to learn how to create arpegiattos delay etc inside logic enviroment which is great! hehs. i guess i will use more of the enviroment now.

oh yes and now i do now how customise my soundbank and all that, so if i got a motif XS in the near future i might be able to do it myself instead of looking for the patches.

THANKS GUYS! oh i mean cheez and soft LOLS . seems like theres so little pple in the software domain ehs.

 

[Cheez]

You don't need to activate any audio tracks to listen. You should be listening to your Fantom from your Fantom directly (ie either headphones or audio out -> (+/-mixer) -> speakers). Only in recording (last stage) do you actually record the audio from the Fantom into Logic. Then, you'll need the audio track to listen.

Glad that everything is working.

 

[soft]

zenguan88, i predict that you next question is "How to access 16 channels on Fantom and 16 channels on Motif?"

 

[zenguan88]

oh hehs, i got that sorted out. its bcos i use a multi instrument settings on the enviroment , that give me access to 16 different instrument tracks corresponding to the 16 combi patches in fantom,

so basically i just have to track 1 ultimate grand , track 2 nylon guitar etc etc, and logic is able to read the patches and store them. so i am happy with it hehs!

oh i went to try the XS but thats another topic already hehs. THANKS GUYS ONCE AGAIN

 

[victorp]

The External Instrument object in Logic Pro environment is meant to treat your external hardware synthesizer as an Audio Instrument object where you you physically cabled your hardware synthesizer audio outs to the audio inputs of your audio hardware interface. Please refer to Logic Pro 7 Reference Manual on more information about External Instrument object. The Reference Manual is also available on Apple web site.