G&L L-2000 tribute premium : solid swamp ash body ??

[stars]

hello , this is an OT from the yamaha rbx 764

what would you guys consider a "swamp ash body" ? a solid swamp ash body or a swamp ash cap over a tilia/basswood core ?

would you think that there would be a tonal difference produced from such a minor alteration in the body ?

would you think its ethical for a manufacturer to claim to have swamp ash bodies and sell basses with basswood cores and an ash top?

for comparison's sake, an G&L USA L-2000 blueburst

its clearly visible that the grain patterns of swamp ash can be observed at the back.

but would you think that this is swamp ash body when you have a tribute body with a basswood core

-thanks for your assistance

 

[Ken]

A swamp ash body is a solid swamp ash body, and having a basswood core is NOT a minor alteration.

Like i said, electronics can mask the sound of the wood to a certain extent, but you put it to really transparent amps or big settings, one can hear the difference, tonally, resonance wise etc. Take an experiment lione up 5 different basses of different woods and makes, and maybe of difference agaes ( i am talking about 5 - 10 years gap). Get a super transparanet amp that does not mask the tone too ( open to suggestions here) take your time to hear the differences. Its hard to hide.

To some, the difference is not noticeable, but to others ( myself included) that difference jars and sets apart a premium bass from one that you will eventually pass on to your younger cousins as a starter bass.

I own a US made G & L premium. Put that to one of the cheapo tributes and one can see and hear the difference.

Another thing that matters is durablility of the wood, how its matures as well as how it stand to the test of time. That's seasoning of the tone etc. In my collection are some basses older than me, yet given the quality of the wood, they maintain and in fact add on as the years pass... i can't say the same for some cheap charlie basses there are out there made of less durable and testy materials.

I think there's a reason why some of us folk will pay a lot more for that "little" difference, we want to grow old of our instruments, not grow out of them.

 

[tim_1002]

1.) your pictures do not prove that there is an ash cap on basswood bodies. painting the back all black is cheaper than to put a burst on the back. most people do not notice the back of the bass anyways. so all you are proving is that g&l saves on the painting of burst colors on the tribute by painting the back black.

2.) If there is no tonal difference, i am sure gibson would have used all mahogany bodies on their solid colored les pauls. whether the difference in sound is actual or psychological, there will be a difference. of course since the cap would be thinner; in your example, the bass would tend to adopt more characteristics of the basswood body.

3.) by stating it is a swamp ash body and not saying it's an ash cap is actually a claim by the manufacturer that the body wood only consists of ash. should the body actually be a cap, and you were misled into buying the bass because it is ash is actually misrepresentation by law and you can mount a substantial case against the company. ethics is a tricky issue with no real answer most of the time if i can sue g&l for misrepresentation given your case is true stars, do you think it is ethical?

if you would still like to discuss more matters. i'm sure we could go into why i think ebay should not be called evilbay but more like economicalbay =)

 

[stars]

if its a solid swamp ash body, and if its finished in blueburst, the back would be visible as well ? its pretty simple. plus , it makes more sense and would save production cost and time to finish it on one side then both side in different finishes. plus , the korean factory is different from the US factory where everything is done by hand if possible.

tone wise , have not had the opportunity to compare head to head a US G&L and a tribute G&L in person. but others who have done so with different body materials and noted marginal differences. coupled with the fact that el cheapo charlie tributes use the same fullerton made MFD pickups as the G&L L-2000. generally , a common comment regarding the L-2000 and the tribute edition is that they are pretty much identitcal except for the fact that the L-2000 gives you more finish options , alder standard body instead of basswood and ash for premium models. plus , have you heard the sound clips of the L-2000 and the L-2000 tributes ? they pretty much sound the same to me.

the only major fundamental difference aside from the burst would be that the tribute L-2000 features a satin neck versus the glossy neck/satin neck/ gun oil tint neck options that are avaliable on the US L-2000

as i said, the information about G&L using a basswood tilia core plus an ASH cap for the premium tribute models came from dudepit forums. those guys are probably the best in terms of G&L product knowledge. in essence , a premium tribute with a swamp ash body is still a swamp ash body, except that it now comes with a basswood core.

apparently G&L tried to cut costs with swamp ash by using a swamp ash top with a core of basswood to keep the tribute light as well. do bear in mind that the tributes are shipped from korea where they are made to the US plant in fullerton for the fitting of their pickups and a setup before they are shipped out to retail outlets. using a basswood core cuts both production and shipping costs and results in a lighter bass. Besides , its pretty well known that G&L basses with ash bodies on average vary from about 9-13 pounds , a little on the heavy side ? having a basswood core makes commercial sense.

the question is , why not if there is no real significance in tone reproduction ? like i have mentioned, go dig up any sound samples of the L-2000 and go try the actual bass ( tribute standard basswood body black) at yamaha combo shop. i honestly didnt note any difference in sound.

focusing on the issue, the only way to probably affirm this would be to run a head to head test with a tribute basswood standard with a l-2000 tribute swamp ash premium.

anyone has one ?

@ken

i m not very sure about the ageing and how the wood matures, could you discuss about that more , would be very very interested to know.

@tim1002

oh .. evilbay is just a slang. evilbay induces GAS, which is not a good thing when one should actually be spending more time practicing rather than GASing over stuff.

 

[wangdexian]

Quit talking and start playing! :lol:

 

[tim_1002]

ahhh. cool term evilbay. for a min i thought u were some up the arse anti-capitalist. apologies for that.

as for the spraying part, essentially spraying the back of a burst body is akin to spraying a left handed body. the settings for the spray machine (if there are any) will have to be reset to follow the contours of the back. ie. more time and money wastage. having the back black also reduces the chances of screwing up the back. i could google more info on spraying but as they say. i've got to practice.

perhaps getting actual evidence of ppl who've scrapped off the finish of their burst basses would actually validate your arguement. untill then, i'll be saving up for my g&l

 

[stars]

ahhh. cool term evilbay. for a min i thought u were some up the arse anti-capitalist. apologies for that.

as for the spraying part, essentially spraying the back of a burst body is akin to spraying a left handed body. the settings for the spray machine (if there are any) will have to be reset to follow the contours of the back. ie. more time and money wastage. having the back black also reduces the chances of screwing up the back. i could google more info on spraying but as they say. i've got to practice.

perhaps getting actual evidence of ppl who've scrapped off the finish of their burst basses would actually validate your arguement. untill then, i'll be saving up for my g&l

dont worry pal.. you're not the only one... my blueburst tribute G&L is coming soon. wanna see pics of it ?more than happy to share with a fellow G&L enthusiast =)

 

[3notesAbar]

By any chance are you guys gonna scrape off the finish?

 

[stars]

By any chance are you guys gonna scrape off the finish?

hell no, but i guess we can tell by knocking the wood. like u know just gently tap it with the knuckle ?

not too sure whether it would work but woods with different densities would sound different when knocked if i m not mistaken. maybe that can work.

 

[tim_1002]

haha will you pay for the depreciation kelvin? when (or if) i decide to get the tribute and decide it's a keeper, i'd be willing to scrape off abit just for the education of fellow softies. if i'm not gonna sell it, who cares what the back looks like ya

oh well. arguement postponed untill stars scrapes off the back of this tribute . jut wondering, how much did you pay for yours? if they had the L-2500 with the maple, sunburst combo i'd be selling my kidney to get it haha. yes i'm an aesthetics whore. so shoot me.

 

[rottenramone]

..

there's a GnL floating around for sale with similar specs. L2000 though

 

[stars]

haha will you pay for the depreciation kelvin? when (or if) i decide to get the tribute and decide it's a keeper, i'd be willing to scrape off abit just for the education of fellow softies. if i'm not gonna sell it, who cares what the back looks like ya

oh well. arguement postponed untill stars scrapes off the back of this tribute . jut wondering, how much did you pay for yours? if they had the L-2500 with the maple, sunburst combo i'd be selling my kidney to get it haha. yes i'm an aesthetics whore. so shoot me.

sadly nope, they dont have it in sunburst and with a maple fretboard

http://www.glguitars.com/tribute/instruments/L-2500/index.asp

haha now we are talking on the same wavelength..

PM me , ild tell u more. i think i got mine at a pretty fair price. hmm if you dare take the risk ild recommend evilbay. someone recently sold a US L-2000 there for 525USD which is dirt cheap for a US L-2000

 

[3notesAbar]

How much is a premium tribute L2500 retailing for?

 

[stars]

oops duplicate post

 

[stars]

How much is a premium tribute L2500 retailing for?

pretty much around there too .. 525- 550 USD in the states . plus shipping and all ...

maybe a good 1k++ here

 

[tim_1002]

was at yamaha ps today. the normal L-2000 is about 1120 i think. 1k+a little bit anyway. service there is so horrible.

yeah i know the sunburst maple is not in production which is a real shame. oh well. maybe if kelvin wants a tribute in rosewood, he could get a maple one and we swap necks haha.

 

[3notesAbar]

Hope it weighs less than 10lbs...

 

[Ken]

@ken

i m not very sure about the ageing and how the wood matures, could you discuss about that more , would be very very interested to know.

well depending what wood is used and how they are treated, it helps in the years to come. Somew woods are also more resistant to weather changes etc than others which makes them ideal for long term keeping and across different continents etc.

E.g. some guits/basses use Aged Ebony which are a lot more resistant to humidity changes etc, which means if you keep the basses for a long time, chances are, it will still remain as it is etc. This cannot compare with say the ebony used on the Gothic Gibson Thunderbirds..... with weather changes, you can see dryness and stuff affecting the fingerboard( can check out me one for instance)

Scientifically, the density of the wood and how porous it is etc, creates the "tone" when the vibrations of the strings pass through the wood before being picked up by your pickup electronics... i find it hard to agree that a solid swamp ash body sounds the same as a basswood core one specifically for this reason beyond the fact that my ears tell me so as well.

The more you play the instrument, the more vibrations have affected the wood. Premium woods will maintain and "mature" with the year sof playing as the wood "molds" (no beeter word here) itself to the course of the vibrations. Cheaper woods may simply "disintegrate" with years of abuse.

Tone is also evident in the body construction besides wood.

An example is like how Gibson '59 LPs have a carved sound chamber in the body as compared to the other lines of Gibson LPs. this creates a difference in the tone ( and of course the price..... you may have to pay up to $9k for a '59 LP second hand as compared to $3k for a brand new standard LP.)

Otherwise, even arrangements of the electronics..positioning according to the body construction all contribute to your sound and tone. your necks, what kind of bridges etc.... a well made instrument blanaces all these with ease of use, adjustments etc.

Well, many may argue that differences between say a G&L tribute and US made G &L are marginal and not worth this kind of price difference... but its precisely the minute details that must be paid for.

And hey, every musician has a right to the best instrument he can get for his playing so when he screws up...he can't blame nothing but himself.

 

[stars]

hmmm ... ah something new today i never thought of it / realised it from this perspective.

@ken , thanks for the information. hmm must be aware of that before i ever buy a new bass.

@kelvin , GAS for G&L ?

@tim_1002, eh tim , according to my information and a little bird at yamaha asia , they are bringing in a new shipment in march 2006. sounds like a good time to order now if you are interested. yamaha deals for the tribute line only.

ask for edmund , hes a nice guy. they(l staff) are kinda left out to stew by their management, they dont even have the manuals for the basses on display at the store

 

[3notesAbar]

I think the Tribute basses will be AWESOME if they are wired to Series/Parallel and single coil. Series and parallel not much diff compared to single.