Comparision Request : Roalnd FP-7F & Yamaha CP5
- Thread starter trevor98
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iansoh
Moderator
I have been a pianist for 22 years, an active gigging and teaching musician and am quite a gearhead to boot. I've been through lots of electronic keyboard instruments in this time. The question you raised seems to be in the context of using a digital piano as an acoustic piano replacement, so I shall answer in that context.
I haven't tried FP-7F, but I have tried the FP-7 and felt it was already a very good digital piano. Theoretically, the FP-7F would be equal or better, feature and feel-wise. There is a display unit of CP5 (or is it a CP1? both are essentially the same anyway) at Yamaha Plaza Singapura. I've tried that too and loved it. I don't feel that either model fall of short of each other in any significant way. We could discuss about nit-gritty differences between the two, but they would only matter to the most discerning or fussy players (which I for now assume you're not, from the general nature of your question).
Both models, however, cost quite a bit.. and for that money, u might be able to buy a silent upright piano, which you should go for, if u want an acoustic piano feel with the flexibility of late night headphones practice.
I haven't tried FP-7F, but I have tried the FP-7 and felt it was already a very good digital piano. Theoretically, the FP-7F would be equal or better, feature and feel-wise. There is a display unit of CP5 (or is it a CP1? both are essentially the same anyway) at Yamaha Plaza Singapura. I've tried that too and loved it. I don't feel that either model fall of short of each other in any significant way. We could discuss about nit-gritty differences between the two, but they would only matter to the most discerning or fussy players (which I for now assume you're not, from the general nature of your question).
Both models, however, cost quite a bit.. and for that money, u might be able to buy a silent upright piano, which you should go for, if u want an acoustic piano feel with the flexibility of late night headphones practice.
trevor98
New member
Hi Iansoh,
Thanks for your explanation. Really glad to have your experienced feedback.
Right, I am hoping not to invest an acoustic, just for my kid's grading.
Hearsay, that Roland's keyboard is very hardy and reliable.
Yeah, you're right, as I'm not a fussy, just hope selection would allow my kid to be useful in his exams / test.
Thanks for bringing up silent upright.
Original intent was also to have something that could be moved aroun easily.
Woud you meant that a silent upright (also a digital) have the good acoustic feel, compared to FP7 or CP5.
I've read the specs for both FP7 & CP5 (and some silent upright), thinks that:
a) CP5 (and CP1), are weighted but not graded (not sure if this is important for my kid).
b) FP7, allows adjustable key weight (digital), but not CP5.
c) Silent upright, believe it's much higher in cost.
I guess reading specs, aren't as good as trying out and recommendations from experience users.
Thanks AGAIN.
Thanks for your explanation. Really glad to have your experienced feedback.
Right, I am hoping not to invest an acoustic, just for my kid's grading.
Hearsay, that Roland's keyboard is very hardy and reliable.
Yeah, you're right, as I'm not a fussy, just hope selection would allow my kid to be useful in his exams / test.
Thanks for bringing up silent upright.
Original intent was also to have something that could be moved aroun easily.
Woud you meant that a silent upright (also a digital) have the good acoustic feel, compared to FP7 or CP5.
I've read the specs for both FP7 & CP5 (and some silent upright), thinks that:
a) CP5 (and CP1), are weighted but not graded (not sure if this is important for my kid).
b) FP7, allows adjustable key weight (digital), but not CP5.
c) Silent upright, believe it's much higher in cost.
I guess reading specs, aren't as good as trying out and recommendations from experience users.
Thanks AGAIN.
Cheez
Moderator
What is the priority? If your child's exams are more important, then you don't want to compromise - go for the acoustic piano. Anything else won't come close. During exams, he will be using an acoustic piano. It's not just the touch - it's the feel that no digital pianos can match. You child will have problems switching between the 2 - main reason is that a digital piano's volume is digitally adjusted. The strength he needs to use to produce a certain volume therefore changes. When he uses an acoustic piano, things change. Your child may find difficulty in adjusting the strength of his fingers/wrist. That's just one factor of the many factors.
Adjustable key weight is not important.
You'll have a hard time looking for the FP7. I don't think Swee Lee has the FP series in stock - you have to order them. Which also means you may not be able to try them out before you buy.
The key difference between the FP and CP series is that the FP comes with built in speakers while the CP does not. That means you need to buy audio speakers for the CP. Touch-wise, they are comparable (although being a pianist, I would prefer the CP touch as closer to the real piano even if it is not graded). But as Iansoh said, that's nit-picking. And I'm a terrible nit-picker and terribly fussy.
I would also suggest the CP300 - cheaper and has built-in speakers (only CP with speakers); also very good touch (that's not nit-picking).
I want to stress again - if your child's exams are important, don't compromise on anything else other than the acoustic piano (that's also not nit-picking).
Adjustable key weight is not important.
You'll have a hard time looking for the FP7. I don't think Swee Lee has the FP series in stock - you have to order them. Which also means you may not be able to try them out before you buy.
The key difference between the FP and CP series is that the FP comes with built in speakers while the CP does not. That means you need to buy audio speakers for the CP. Touch-wise, they are comparable (although being a pianist, I would prefer the CP touch as closer to the real piano even if it is not graded). But as Iansoh said, that's nit-picking. And I'm a terrible nit-picker and terribly fussy.
I would also suggest the CP300 - cheaper and has built-in speakers (only CP with speakers); also very good touch (that's not nit-picking).I want to stress again - if your child's exams are important, don't compromise on anything else other than the acoustic piano (that's also not nit-picking).
trevor98
New member
Hi Cheez,
Thanks man, you've made realised the very realistic and practical points there.
Totally agree with the try before buy, which now puts FP7 in the secondary category.
I do like the CP5 (CP1 is too much to pay for, as I'm not that great in playing), do have a set of KRK 5 to start with.
Thanks for strengtening the CP300 into the considerations.
Agee that the child's exam is important, but I surpose he will need at least another 2~3 years (i think), before his skills could catch-up with the acoustics. We parents would like acedemic paper first and let them take this at slower pace, so as not to kill both acedemic and music in the child.
Curently letting him play around the korg TR61. Thought of buying some good weighted keys to strenghten his fingers, with the closest to acoustics possible, since Cheez had helped stress the difference in feel.
Thought that at least a good digital (handy ones), could serve me for a longer time and later let my kid bring around, if needed.
Looking at Korg and found not impressive in sounds and feel.
Looking at Kurzweil and found "not sure".
Looking at Nord, not tested and no idea at all.
At what level would be important for the kid practice acoustics, I surpose the level 1 & 2 (ABRSM), do not require the skill level, and maybe even upto level 3 &4 as well?
Hi Iansoh, where do you teach, can pm me?
Thanks again.//
Thanks man, you've made realised the very realistic and practical points there.
Totally agree with the try before buy, which now puts FP7 in the secondary category.
I do like the CP5 (CP1 is too much to pay for, as I'm not that great in playing), do have a set of KRK 5 to start with.
Thanks for strengtening the CP300 into the considerations.
Agee that the child's exam is important, but I surpose he will need at least another 2~3 years (i think), before his skills could catch-up with the acoustics. We parents would like acedemic paper first and let them take this at slower pace, so as not to kill both acedemic and music in the child.
Curently letting him play around the korg TR61. Thought of buying some good weighted keys to strenghten his fingers, with the closest to acoustics possible, since Cheez had helped stress the difference in feel.
Thought that at least a good digital (handy ones), could serve me for a longer time and later let my kid bring around, if needed.
Looking at Korg and found not impressive in sounds and feel.
Looking at Kurzweil and found "not sure".
Looking at Nord, not tested and no idea at all.
At what level would be important for the kid practice acoustics, I surpose the level 1 & 2 (ABRSM), do not require the skill level, and maybe even upto level 3 &4 as well?
Hi Iansoh, where do you teach, can pm me?
Thanks again.//
Cheez
Moderator
It's not practicing acoustics. It's finger technique. The finger technique is crucial at the beginning stages. It's hard to unlearn if his technique is wrong/fixed after a few years. How old is your child? It's not about academic papers. In the end, it's what you want your child to achieve.
If you want your child to take up classical piano, the only reason you would not get an acoustic piano would be if there's no space in your house to put it.
And that's the case, I would suggest Yamaha as I find their touch closest to the real piano. The newest Roland keyboards are also not bad (ie PHA III keybeds). Those would be the V-piano (expensive) and the RD700NX (don't think they are in Singapore yet).
I'm now working overseas and getting an acoustic piano is difficult. So I have a Yamaha S90 for my son. That's really not advisable. If I can, I would definitely get an acoustic piano. Keyboard is the second best choice (and Yamaha is the closest to the real thing I can get). I have 3 sons - 2 learning now. Being classically trained (and also playing keyboards), I'm very particular about techniques. I've seen many who play keyboards who lack the finger techniques (and therefore progress is hampered), and teaching/helping them to progress after they reach a certain age is not easy. Already, my son finds difficulty switching. When playing the real piano, he finds it hard to control his finger strength and has difficulty in expression. And I'm not exam focused on my son - he's currently not taking any exams (being overseas and all). I just want to make sure his foundation is strong.
If you want your child to take up classical piano, the only reason you would not get an acoustic piano would be if there's no space in your house to put it.
And that's the case, I would suggest Yamaha as I find their touch closest to the real piano. The newest Roland keyboards are also not bad (ie PHA III keybeds). Those would be the V-piano (expensive) and the RD700NX (don't think they are in Singapore yet).
I'm now working overseas and getting an acoustic piano is difficult. So I have a Yamaha S90 for my son. That's really not advisable. If I can, I would definitely get an acoustic piano. Keyboard is the second best choice (and Yamaha is the closest to the real thing I can get). I have 3 sons - 2 learning now. Being classically trained (and also playing keyboards), I'm very particular about techniques. I've seen many who play keyboards who lack the finger techniques (and therefore progress is hampered), and teaching/helping them to progress after they reach a certain age is not easy. Already, my son finds difficulty switching. When playing the real piano, he finds it hard to control his finger strength and has difficulty in expression. And I'm not exam focused on my son - he's currently not taking any exams (being overseas and all). I just want to make sure his foundation is strong.
trevor98
New member
Hi Cheez,
Thanks for explaning further.
Yes, I agree with Technique is most important, but not knowing that digital would hamper their them later. Thanks for your experienced enforcement. I've spoken to several private tutors, and they don't seem to enforce on technique.
Couldn't find a school that teaches technique as priority, like the one book by Seymour Fink (seem great).
My only son is 9 years and taking "group" piano 4yr course with Yamaha, slow pace, that currently suits him.
Apologies for not explaining, as I meant "acedemics" is refering to keeping his primary shcool standard, and not being affected by over enforced music time.
I thought it would good for him to be ready, and say at age 11 or more before he concentrate on technique building.
Developing technique takes time and should be started as early as possible, and I'll agree with you.
It's great to have a father, like you, who could help path and guide the way for your children in music.
I'm happy to have your comments and had helped to see and chart my son's too.
Thanks for suggesting Roland (for it's PHA III), as you're right on top of all market developments and availability.
May re-visit Yamaha again to stengthen your suggestion.
I'm not sure, for the next 2~3 years, to have at least a weighted (with closest acoustic feel), for the kid to practice is ok.
As I'll want the digital for myself, and if the kid could go further, then an acoustic, permanently for him.
Cheers man.
Thanks for explaning further.
Yes, I agree with Technique is most important, but not knowing that digital would hamper their them later. Thanks for your experienced enforcement. I've spoken to several private tutors, and they don't seem to enforce on technique.
Couldn't find a school that teaches technique as priority, like the one book by Seymour Fink (seem great).
My only son is 9 years and taking "group" piano 4yr course with Yamaha, slow pace, that currently suits him.
Apologies for not explaining, as I meant "acedemics" is refering to keeping his primary shcool standard, and not being affected by over enforced music time.
I thought it would good for him to be ready, and say at age 11 or more before he concentrate on technique building.
Developing technique takes time and should be started as early as possible, and I'll agree with you.
It's great to have a father, like you, who could help path and guide the way for your children in music.
I'm happy to have your comments and had helped to see and chart my son's too.
Thanks for suggesting Roland (for it's PHA III), as you're right on top of all market developments and availability.
May re-visit Yamaha again to stengthen your suggestion.
I'm not sure, for the next 2~3 years, to have at least a weighted (with closest acoustic feel), for the kid to practice is ok.
As I'll want the digital for myself, and if the kid could go further, then an acoustic, permanently for him.
Cheers man.
It is alright for your child to start acoustic first. Generally, acoustic piano is harder to play than keyboard. If your child can handle acoustic piano then nothing could stop him. There is exception where acoustic piano is easier to play than keyboard. I once able to play Victoria concert hall steinway grand. The key response is a lot better than keyboard,IMO. That why you don't see keyboard being play to play master grade piano pieces.
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Cheez
Moderator
OK, I understand a little more. If ABRSM is not where you are heading (and you are not definite on getting your son on classical music), then a good digital piano may be Ok. But do note that starting on an acoustic piano will give better foundation. I'm surprised that the teachers you know do not focus on techniques. PianoEx will probably have more to say here. I've been playing the piano for more than 30 years and keyboards for more than 20. Finger techniques is still key to good foundation.
But back to digital piano options - Yamaha would be my first option for touch closest to the real piano. Certainly try the CP300. The built-in speakers are really good as it reverberates the keyboard itself, giving a different sensation to playing. The other CPs do not come with speakers, so you need additional external speakers. That will mean more money, and it doesn't quite give the same feeling as the CP300.
By the way, what is your budget?
But back to digital piano options - Yamaha would be my first option for touch closest to the real piano. Certainly try the CP300. The built-in speakers are really good as it reverberates the keyboard itself, giving a different sensation to playing. The other CPs do not come with speakers, so you need additional external speakers. That will mean more money, and it doesn't quite give the same feeling as the CP300.
By the way, what is your budget?
trevor98
New member
Hi kongwee & cheez,
Thanks very much for all your feedback and advises.
They're certainly most useful and expanded my views.
Do hope my son could take up classical, but with his playfulness, and to sit down to practice hard (classical need this), I'll probably need to give it a good thought, wait and see, in this aspect. He's currently in Yamaha 1st year.
My current Korg T61 (hooked to a pair of KRK 5), could not give him the "weighted keys" practice, and henceforth the necessry feel rather. My kid enjoys fidering with the workstation, more than he practice. Thanks for the leads, and totally agree with Cheez, on techniques focus training will go a long way in the future and foundation. I think (with no offence), "teachers" many, "mentor" really hard to find or come by.
Sorry, back to type. Budget wise, 3~4K is confortable, but hope not to invest twice or more, which would put the CP300 in the range ( I think). Acoustics, say U1 would be in the range of 8K+, I may have to sell my car to trade for it (reality is that it's a big pinch).
Thanks for helping to save money, as I thought the CP5 would be better.
The other reason is, I can still enjoy the keyboard (with minimum possible investment), if my kid decides to quit in his teenage years.
Other reason for putting 2nd consideration to acoustics, is that the better ones is higher in price, the lower ones would need to be "scrap", and re-invest for a better one or one that suits him later.
I'm not in the category to be able to try out and know the difference, so I really depends on experienced "help" from you guys.
Apologies, for a little bit out of topic discussion.
Cheers man.
Thanks very much for all your feedback and advises.
They're certainly most useful and expanded my views.
Do hope my son could take up classical, but with his playfulness, and to sit down to practice hard (classical need this), I'll probably need to give it a good thought, wait and see, in this aspect. He's currently in Yamaha 1st year.
My current Korg T61 (hooked to a pair of KRK 5), could not give him the "weighted keys" practice, and henceforth the necessry feel rather. My kid enjoys fidering with the workstation, more than he practice. Thanks for the leads, and totally agree with Cheez, on techniques focus training will go a long way in the future and foundation. I think (with no offence), "teachers" many, "mentor" really hard to find or come by.
Sorry, back to type. Budget wise, 3~4K is confortable, but hope not to invest twice or more, which would put the CP300 in the range ( I think). Acoustics, say U1 would be in the range of 8K+, I may have to sell my car to trade for it (reality is that it's a big pinch).
Thanks for helping to save money, as I thought the CP5 would be better.
The other reason is, I can still enjoy the keyboard (with minimum possible investment), if my kid decides to quit in his teenage years.
Other reason for putting 2nd consideration to acoustics, is that the better ones is higher in price, the lower ones would need to be "scrap", and re-invest for a better one or one that suits him later.
I'm not in the category to be able to try out and know the difference, so I really depends on experienced "help" from you guys.
Apologies, for a little bit out of topic discussion.
Cheers man.
SilverBeast
New member
Hi Trevor,
In the first place, what does your son think of taking up piano/music? Was it his choice or yours?
I'm a father like you and also put my child onto a music path simply because he has that interest in music keyboarding. Primarily as a parent, I just hope to help start him off with a healthy hobby that he can continue in his later years. In his class, I could see kids who are following the wish of their parents and not to mention, not feeling very motivated to play. In fact, one of the parent had to "make sure" her child sits there to practice for an hour and it's only JMC! I really wonder how many children here in Singapore are happy nowadays?
While it would be good to have a father like Cheez to fuel the child's learning in music, you can also be that catalyst because you have the interest in music too! I can't describe how enjoyable and fulfiling it can be when learning music together with your child. :-D
OK...back to your choice of hardware. I think the advice given by the "pros" here is clear and correct...go for an acoustic piano to start your child on the right track. For the budget that you are willing to fork out, you could get both with perhaps at least one being a used one. I'll be in your shoes next year to decide on a set of weighted keys for my child. As I also take into consideration my interest, I have kind of decided on a CVP or CLP with at least a GH3 touch coz it'll also be something my child could operate alone as compared to getting a Motif XF8 (Sigh...there goes my black beauty :-( ). I'm thinking of trying out the Kawai CA93 (with wooden sound board!) but I guess it'll cost a bomb and I'm not very confident with their after-sales service on electronic products that Yamaha can provide. I also had the Roland HP307 in mind, but it's a pre-order. I gave consideration to the few models you have chosen but it is important to note that when you are looking for a digital instrument to sound close to an acoustic piano, the 3 important components of the piano sound sample, the touch/feel of keys and the amplification system are my main criteria in selection. Then again, nothing beats the real thing. Anyway, if can wait for a few months, the usual year end sales would be taking place.
BTW, I'm not criticising on anyone's parenting style here but remember that your child's happiness should be priority and that lies in your hands as a parent. Take care and enjoy the music journey with your child!
In the first place, what does your son think of taking up piano/music? Was it his choice or yours?
I'm a father like you and also put my child onto a music path simply because he has that interest in music keyboarding. Primarily as a parent, I just hope to help start him off with a healthy hobby that he can continue in his later years. In his class, I could see kids who are following the wish of their parents and not to mention, not feeling very motivated to play. In fact, one of the parent had to "make sure" her child sits there to practice for an hour and it's only JMC! I really wonder how many children here in Singapore are happy nowadays?
While it would be good to have a father like Cheez to fuel the child's learning in music, you can also be that catalyst because you have the interest in music too! I can't describe how enjoyable and fulfiling it can be when learning music together with your child. :-D
OK...back to your choice of hardware. I think the advice given by the "pros" here is clear and correct...go for an acoustic piano to start your child on the right track. For the budget that you are willing to fork out, you could get both with perhaps at least one being a used one. I'll be in your shoes next year to decide on a set of weighted keys for my child. As I also take into consideration my interest, I have kind of decided on a CVP or CLP with at least a GH3 touch coz it'll also be something my child could operate alone as compared to getting a Motif XF8 (Sigh...there goes my black beauty :-( ). I'm thinking of trying out the Kawai CA93 (with wooden sound board!) but I guess it'll cost a bomb and I'm not very confident with their after-sales service on electronic products that Yamaha can provide. I also had the Roland HP307 in mind, but it's a pre-order. I gave consideration to the few models you have chosen but it is important to note that when you are looking for a digital instrument to sound close to an acoustic piano, the 3 important components of the piano sound sample, the touch/feel of keys and the amplification system are my main criteria in selection. Then again, nothing beats the real thing. Anyway, if can wait for a few months, the usual year end sales would be taking place.
BTW, I'm not criticising on anyone's parenting style here but remember that your child's happiness should be priority and that lies in your hands as a parent. Take care and enjoy the music journey with your child!
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