Why are some songs more complex in nature than others??

[parablue74]

A simple question that have really fooled me a lot of times looking at songs. Why are some songs more complex than others in nature?? Like why some songs has more variation in drum grooves, musicality etc even if they are in the same genre... As though some songs are just called to be that way while others are not. Some are just simple, some are just so intrigue. Is there a certain notion of pattern that makes a song more complex than others??
Please give me your opinion... What you think??

 

[RoRK]

Whaliouw! You're a producer and you're asking such a general Q that will likely lead to nowhere.

Perhaps you should define 'complex' other than drum patterns. Chord progressions, chords, instrumentation, voicings, etc are all important right? So is there any specific area you wanna have feedback on?

BTW, it's a good Q but it needs to be refined to make it more useful, IMHO.

Cheers!

 

[visa]

it all boils down to what the songwriter and the musicians want. you can choose to play something simple or complex, whatever is appropriate for the song.

 

[parablue74]

yupz... it's a very general question. But being a simple question as it is, i believe it is actually one of the hardest question to answer in song making especially production. Maybe i can be more specific.. From producing many songs, i have realise that some songs, as simple as they may seem when they were in their raw stages, actually turned out to be pretty complex during the stage of production. Either they end up with complex drum groove and variation, or they may have complex piano or organ riffs. Yet, there turn out to be some songs which are as simple as they look or turn out simple when though to be complex at the start.
These complexity actually makes the song's 'feel' better as compared when they are made simple. As for simple songs, complexities just don't work for them. Complex natures also can revolve in terms of arrangement. There were some songs i did in the past which i thought would have a simple arrangement (maybe i was just being lazy, who doesn't want an easier job!). But somehow, after listening back and forth, these songs actually had to have a more complex arrangement in order to bring out their emotions.
The simple answer would be the song's nature or character that brings forth whether they are meant to be complex or simple. Apparently, as musicians, simplicity seems the easier solution, but when we face the song as it is, understand it's character and nature, sometimes we have to face the fact when the song just had to have something (groove, melody, synths or arrangement!) complex.
There were songs that took me a shorter time to complete, everything came out more or less as it is, with only slight variations later, but somehow, simple as it is, nothing could be changed there after. But some songs have to be really dug in and out, even with my band, with major variations coming in and out over time, to get them right.
I believe it is not just me as a producer that faced this, even with bands coming out songs, i believe they do face songs that are more difficult than others.
I'm just wondering if there are any character or nature similarities between songs that are complex and those that are simple. Are there common traits between simple songs?? Are there common traits between complex ones?? I'm still digging this question, maybe you can give me your opinions.

 

[Mobius]

It all boils down to the vocal melody? Some songs can jus hold its own on the vocal melody itself while some jus need the complex arrangement. Most metal songs that have pretty complex riffs, solos, arrangements, the vocal melody isnt very strong or memorable. Maybe thats y u don find many metal bands doing stripped down unplugged versions of their songs?

 

[RoRK]

Are you asking this with which POV in mind?
A) Songwriter
B) Audio Engineer
C) Producer
D) All of the above

There's also the possibility that an arranger may be at play between the songwriting and the engineering part.

From a songwriting part, it has to be based on the songwriter's preference which is largely based on their genre. One also has to keep in mind that there are genres that allow for a lot of room to manoeuvre within.

I prefer complex chord progressions most of the time because otherwise I get bored with the song. And it's a challenge to come out with complex stuff. Challenges are fun. However, there are certain songs where the idea/mood/feel/vibe for the song just begs to be simple in its instrumentation and arrangement although the chord progressions may be unlike standard pop fare.

From audio engineer, a lot of issues, thoughts and ideas can come into play during the mix. But I'm not experienced in that area to say much.

A producer's POV is nice to have a look at. They should know the band and what the band is trying to achieve and help the band to hit the target as best as they possibly can. A lot can be achieved with a good producer but the producer first needs to have the band's confidence.

There should actually be a thread at Soft on working with producers because too few local bands work with one. Even many of the best international artistes work with producers. I find it strange that local bands don't even think about this crucial element in their planning and thoughts. Starting a band is great but it's even better to have a producer that is committed.