What equipment do I need?

gjkung

New member
Hi there, I've recently set up a new CCA in school that deals with contemporary music.

I'm new to studio recording, but I'd have to equip my CCA with recording gear so I ahve no idea what to get for teh long term.

From what I know, I need a mixer and a muti-track recorder. Problem is, I ahve no idea how all these stuff work. Is the mixer just an input device or does it allow you to playback and EQ/mix the tracks?

For a good balance of quality and convenience, should I get an analog or digital mixer?

Bottom line is, what do I need in order to record up to 16 tracks and mix them properly for production in a school?

And will this mixer double as a live mixer?

Thanks in advance
 
I use a Korg D888
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?a_prod_no=D888&category_id=3
price : I bought at $1075, it's supposed to be about $1.2K but I can waiver off stuff like GST etc and put up a good negotiation.

goods : portable. worth it. 8 individual track recording. big time virtual track recording.
bads : undo is slow. 5400 2.5" hard disk, understandable.

but in your case, 8 tracks probably not enough for you. but fills your requirements for a "mixer" and "recorder"

I do use more than 8 tracks, up to 16 too. but I use seperate mixers to "extend" the inputs. sorta like e.g : Korg D888 + behringer 5 XLR channel mixer.

#1: lead guitar
#2: rhythm guitar
#3: vocals
#4: back vocals
#5: bass
#6: keyboards
#7: behringer Left input Mixer
#8: behringer Right input Mixer

Behringer Mixer 5 channel :

#1: snare
#2: kick
#3: toms
#4: left overhead
#5: right overhead

so end of the day I get a 5-miked-drums L.wav , 5-miked-drums R.wav , lead guitar.wav, rhythmguitar.wav , bass.wav , keys.wav , vocals.wav , backvox.wav and thats the bliss of a digital multitrack recorder. you get more control.

as for understanding how a mixer works, you probably need to read up. but to sum it up in one big fat line : yes, it puts signals together whatever you put into the mixer. and comes out as a "stereo" sound if you plug your headphones/earphones at the "master out". if you didn't pan (pan = move your sound left of earphone or right of earphone) your signals will be in the center a.k.a (mono) etc etc.

hope this isn't too confusing.

20¢ worth
 
oh anyway I missed your 2nd question :

(Recorder, no mic preamps,not a mixer)
I don't know any 16 track recorder except for alesis HD24 (mackie has something like that) but you gotta get 24 seperate mic preamps AFTER that to record. HD24 is about $2K/$3K already. and no mic pres.

(mic preamps, audio interface/soundcard, but not a mixer)
if something with mic pre-amps, get 2 Presonus Firepods (about $900 i think). but that requires you to have a pretty powerful PC. and it's not a mixer.

so far I'm using korg d888 it works well for me, you can try get korg D3200, 12 track recorder or something I think. but usually out of stock and costs like $1.7K alot more bulkier.

find your compromise.
 
if you want a recording interface that can double as a live mixer look into the phonic helix series. 12/18/24 channels available via firewire into the PC and works as a standalone mixer as well. cheap too.
 
gjkung : ah yes like what unsane recommends. mixer/interface, then the recording capability is possible via a PC. if you're new to audio stuff it's okay.. but when it comes to PC you better at least know the basics haha.

practise makes perfect. nobody is perfect. so you are nobody.
 
So it's good to go digital and record using a firewire interface?

The phonic helix and the MAckie onyx are similar devices right?

my main concern is with regards to the sound quality and latency, if I use a firewire interface and record digitially, will I be losing any audio fidelity?

Also, if I use firewire, I'd need a proper mixing/editing software to mix the multi-track input right? Any recommendation for that?

I need a setup that enables me to put out a professional sounding record, provided I learn to utilise them properly.
 
I've been reading great reviews on the 1604-VLZ3 Mackie mixer, but does that mixer allow recording to a computer? It seems to have no digital out.

If so, then what do I need in order to record multi using that mixer
 
I guess you should look into Protools as well. It come with everything and of course the cost is much higher.

Aternatively, you can hook up a mackie mixer with RME, Motu soundcard which is connected to your computer. RME is running on firewire and I had no issue with that in my studio. The RME I/O is connected to mixer also, hence you can have multi track recording, e.g drum. Then on your sequencer like Samplitude, Cubase, Protools wise, you can set individual track for different instrument.

For 1604 as you mentioned, you need to have hook up the output from mixer to your breakout box of soundcard so that the sound will transmit to your computer for recording. (As what I mentioned earlier on) :)

additional: You may want to look into M Audio for the soundcard as well. All depend on your budget too. :)
 
ok let me clear my doubts:

with a 1604-VLZ3, is there a way I can record the 16 tracks into the a sequencer simultaneously and separately, what do I need?

About the protools, are they just higher quality audio interfaces?
 
to clear my doubts :

whats your budget. are you familiar with PCs. do you have a PC. Do you require to be mobile or just stationed at one spot.
 
sorry I forgot to give the details

My budget should be around 5k. But it's not fixed as I'm buying other stuff. And yes I'm familiar with a PC and have one.

The setup need not be extremely mobile. There will only be two locations it will be at: onstage and in studio. I don't intend to move it a lot.
 
ok so what I see is this.

Budget : $4K

PC already have. I'm assuming it's a P4 bought within the last 1 or 2 years. (which is good enough) hopefully enough ram and hard disk space.
--------------
your best shot in my opinion is getting 2 presonus firepods, daisy chain them. then you'll have 16 inputs.
instruments > mics > presonus firepods (preamp + soundcard) > PC

----------------
but problem is you want a "doubled as a live mixer".
the other alternative is :
instruments > mics > a 16 XLR channel mixer with each individual outputs (preamps) > a soundcard that supports up to 16 recording channels. > PC.

i ever had one such setup before.

16 XLR channel mixer with individual outs :
http://www.alesis.com/products/studio32/
I sold off to a friend at $600, contact me if you're interested, maybe he's not using now he might be selling it too.

8 digital channel + 8 analog @ 24/48khz recording soundcard :
http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/Discontinued/Layla24/index.php
currently i'm using this.

so you can multitrack record + live sound engineer at the same time.

your budget of $4K is quite high , can actually get you something decent with mics inclusive. but mobility wise it won't be so friendly. cos you gotta lug the mixer, the soundcard, the pc, the monitor etc.
--------------------

this one's your call from here on. hope this helps

30¢ worth.
 
ok thanks for great amount of information and help.

Regarding mobility, it's not my main concern cuz I'd be mounting it in a rack and then moving it around either on ground level or by a vehicle.

I'd take a look at the stuff you recommended and decide, thanks!

Btw, where did you purchase the two alesis and the echo?
 
you're welcome,

still if you're going to move it around, you're gonna need at least 2 manpower / someone to jaga. etc

anyway don't just check out my recommendation, those are OLD and DISCONTINUED gear. i'm sure there's something new on the market that's better or cheaper. basically you get the formula of having
1) 16 XLR mixer (to use as a preamp for recording and to use as live mixer)
2) a 16 multitrack recording soundcard.

I bought the alesis studio32 from luther music

and echo audio soundcard from Swizer, it's at katong shopping centre. look at their website for dealers. the guy's name is Kevin, extremely friendly guy.

but do check out MOTU stuff also.

cheers

20¢ worth
 
I looked through all the stuff and got osme new questions:

Firstly, would you recommend PCI or firewire connection to the computer?

Secondly, what's the benefit of getting the mixer and the interface separately as opposed to the all-in-one Firewire mixers like the Mackie Onyx or the Alesis Multi-mix?



Finallly, will two Audiofire 8s (http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireWire/AudioFire8/index.php) work? I was thinking of getting two of them for to record up to 16 tracks or just one audiofire 12. As for mixer I still can't find one with 16 analog in/outs for 16 track recording.
 
i'd still recommend the phonic helix series..great on the budget as well, the 16 channel version should be going for under $1500 locally if i remember right.

mobility and ease of setup is one issue, an all in one firewire mixer/interface is less troublesome to bring around and get going than a seperate setup. firewire, you could easily tote a laptop around instead of a desktop PCI based interface.

i hear the pre's on the helix are decent, but you could always upgrade to external pres and go in via the line inputs.

the phonic,mackie and alesis units are all similar except for the price, obviously the mackie is priced the highest and probably has slightly better pre's and EQ sections, though i'm not sure you'd hear a huge difference in your case. don't knock phonic, they have their own manufacturing plant and actually OEM for many other brands including yamaha i believe.

i think going for the phonic and spending the rest of the money on mics,plugins,decent monitors and some manner of acoustic treatment would be the best solution...
 
gjkung : firewire's connectivity is more universal, easy to replace.if i'm not wrong
[...] = soundcard/audio interface

PCI = mic > preamps > [breakoutbox > its own cable > pci card] > PC

firewire = mic > [preamps>audio interface] > firewire cable > firewire port (if your PC doesn't have a firewire port, you'll have to buy a seperate firewire card. > PC.

both are fine, some ppl swear by firewire, some still feel PCI is stable.

secondly, as what unsane recommends. he's right too because a friend passed me this link :
http://www.phonic.com/en/product/de...group=en&product_no=helixboard24firewiremkii#

this would be what you need entirely. as a 16 XLR channel mixer, and a live mixer, and a multitrack recording capability. and a multi purpose mobile gym to lug 12KG around.

and forget about the audiofire 8s.

10¢ worth and 20¢ from kithsa
 
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