Singer Songwriters Thread

[voxvirage]

Hello all!!

Almost all music starts with one person, an idea and maybe a piano/guitar/whatever instrument. Often when we listen to the finished products with a full band, and nowadays with all kinds of techno beats, they simply serve to distract and satisfy the short attention span of the absent minder consumers. But as musicians, we should try very hard to connect with the songwriter and what he is saying...

And thats the beauty of acoustic/ unplugged versions. Often, the acoustic version is what it was MEANT to sound like.

I will like to share one songwriter with a profound influence on my songwriting. He is the "typical" songwriter: emotional, deep lyrics, possibly boring to some of you. But read deeper...

Nick Drake was never noticed till he died. Maybe thats the way he would have liked it, since when i listen to his songs i feel like im looking right into his mind..


But What about Singapore? Our original music scene is definitely blossoming. Singer songwriters I have grown to like definitely include forthiscycle, kevin matthews, leslie low (in humpback oak; i have yet to listen to the newer stuff). There is also a large number of younger, unexposed songwriters (such as yours truly). Would be great if our songwriters posted lyrics too so its easier to read, ha ha ha. More importantly, I would like to listen to all the various songwriters!

Similarly, there are a large number of very good bands whose music I would like to hear their music in the RAW form. Where are the acoustic demos of electrico, great spy, b quartet, or ugly in the morning? Dave matthews performs all his songs as a duo and with a full band and the songs still shine because the SONGS are good, not the embellishments. Would love to hear some of my favourite local songs stripped down.

So lets use this thread to share:

1) Awesome songwriters from around the world
2) Local songwriters please share your songs (originals only please!)
3) I don't know man, tips on songwriting and the like?

Awesome!
LOGAN

ps. you can check out my own originals at http://www.youtube.com/user/loganliu. Am open to collaborations and all tt too.

 

[Stan_Kumar]

Dustin Prinz. Amazing singer with creativity in his originals. Definitely worth the check. He does covers too.

http://www.youtube.com/user/prinzd

Some originals to check out are Bipolar, You + Me = Drugs, Let Her Go. Just some of the gems.

 

[centralcatchment]

Haven't posted that much here. I'll start by warning that I'm opinionated about music and I have gotten into arguments with people on this forum before. Basically having the sort of conversations that end in band members "departing due to creative differences".

I don’t agree with you that stripped down music is its essential form. Maybe I’m biased. I think that song writing is like scoring goals. There are goals from the centre circle, tap ins, solo efforts, 20 passes in a row efforts, headers, bicycle kicks, rounding the goalkeeper… you get the idea. All goals are the same because they give you 1 point. Similarly all good songs are the same, and yet they are all different.

Music was meant to be the interplay of the elements – rhythm, melody, harmony, even noise. I think any of these things can form the basis for a song. Sometimes a musical idea isn’t really that compelling unless it’s juxtaposed with something that make it that way.

I’ll give you a song that I hold in high regard. “With Every Heartbeat” by Robyn. 2 chords. Same line over and over again. Why does this song work? Because the real star of the song is the background effects. True, the melody is good, and the lyrics are very simple and direct. But the motif is never played the same way twice.

Crudely, the first time is the “heavy cloud” pad, probably signifies the heavy resignation that the love affair is over. Second time, sequencers are added. The drama is beginning to build, the resignation builds up to full blown grief. Third time, enter strings. Tension builds, constantly threatening to boil over, but never does. Fourth time, all rhythmic elements stop.

Why? Because this song is also about velocity and momentum. She is moving forwards, she is staying still, she is walking backwards. Because this song is about dealing with a breakup. Thinking about the past, but also letting go. Moving away from the pain, but also living through the pain. Taking the blows, but also moving forwards. The contradiction reflected in the lyrics, “hurts with every heart beat” vs “I dun look back”. “Maybe we can make it alright” vs “things will never change”. So the rhythm stops for a while because you want to accentuate that this song is essentially about momentum and velocity.

So when the song starts to move again, it’s “And it hurts with every heartbeat” over and over again. But now there is a resoluteness. She’s made the decision, she’ll go and not look back. It’s liberating, even joyful even as the world crashes around her.
Notice that all of the above was achieved by playing the same 2 chords over and over again. Almost the same melody over and over. Yes, it’s played a little differently everytime and it means something different. The genius in the songwriting is to come up with something that’s pliable enough to hold all these different meanings when orchestrated differently. It's almost like theme and variations, except that the original musical ideas gain their strengths by being portrayed in 4 or 5 different ways. To me that is also good songwriting. This song is both simple and complex at the same time.

I don’t think a stripped down acoustic version of “Every Heartbeat” would work very well. Strip away all the sound effects, more than half of the song would be lost.

There are many songs for which your statement, "the acoustic version is how it was meant to be heard" is true. But for the rest I don't think the songwriter writes the acoustic version first and puts on the other stuff later. If you hear some wonderful sound where all the parts fit in very well, it's very likely, that was how it was originally conceived. It's far from the truth that the melody is the first part of the song to be written. Sometimes the bass is written first, sometimes the drum figure. Or some strange guitar sound that cannot be directly translated into notation.

Brian Wilson already said that he thinks in terms of sounds and colours. He calls his fragments of music “feels”. I don’t think he’s a person who writes the melody first and then puts stuff on top of it later.

Really good songwriting, to me, is not always just a melody and some chords. Some songs emerge fully formed, ie you know what every instrument is doing. The ones which sound best acoustic – I think it’s advisable to just put it out as acoustic.

Bob Dylan started out acoustic – but how much of “Blonde on Blonde” sounds best acoustic? Joni also started out acoustic, but how much of “Hissing” was meant to be acoustic? Even Nick Drake – for me the arrangements were some of the best things about “Five Leaves Left” and “Bryter Layter’. It’s true that most of the songs can be done Pink Moon style, but there is a lot going on underneath the first 2 records.

Now Nick Drake – I have been a fan for 15 years but I have to say, he was never noticed until he died because he was a pretty inept publicist. He didn’t work hard enough in the marketing department, except maybe killing himself (misadventure or suicide, fact is he died by his own hand) added to his legend. Now yes, this is a pretty harsh thing to say and I’m sorry. Nick Drake is not Nick Drake if he wasn’t too sensitive for 90% of the crap that goes on in this world. But in whatever show business there is this element of selling your ass to the audience and he wasn’t having any of it.

Otherwise, as a musician he was pretty amazing.

Here are some of my favourite songwriters:

Strummer / Jones
Pete Townsend
Ray Davies
Joni Mitchell
Paddy McAloon
Fagan / Becker
Tennant / Lowe
Stevie Wonder
Carole King
Bacharach / David
REM
Kurt Cobain
Jimi Hendrix
Brian Wilson
Wire

Songwriting – I think it takes time and practice to understand what works and what doesn’t. I wasn’t happy with anything I wrote until more than 10 years after I started writing. Oh and good job with the youtube.

 

[voxvirage]

wow, thanks for the great reply! I do not disagree with you. In fact i must admit what you say is too true. I guess its because i play guitar that i think of songwriting from a guitar point of view. It would take a much more experienced musician to hear fully all the parts in the song at once. In this sense Robyn is a genius, as she is able to "hear" multiple instruments coming together to bring across her message.

Do you think that nowadays often musical production is so commercially focused that experienced producers "force" musician's songs into certain appealing moulds, such that the original sound is lost? I wonder...

And no doubt nick drake did not publicise himself, but i don't think that is either good or bad. showbiz is showbiz, but music is music. I am thankful I will never need to sell my ass, and its through this thread I hope everyone can share some awesome songwriters they know (but whom we wont know since they did not sell the ass enough, haha!)

ps thanks for the long list man ill check them out soon!

 

[centralcatchment]

Well I’m glad that you didn’t misunderstand what I said. What I meant was that sometimes the substance is to be found in the style. (ie the arrangements are often an integral part of the songwriting.) But that’s OK when the songwriting is the important point. It's only when they don't care about substance, when things go wrong.

So what you point out is correct too – that often musicians don’t care about the songwriting, they just want to put out something that’s very polished or what they think appeals to the masses.

If you want to be generous about this, it’s often true that one person’s meat is another man’s poison. It’s often true that – let’s face it, music is very elitist. Appreciating good music can be a bit like appreciating a good chess game. If you don’t understand it, if you’re not a good listener, you’re just going to miss out on a lot. The best music – I don’t think it’s possible to enjoy really good music without a trained ear, just as it’s not possible to enjoy Virginia Woolf / James Joyce / Marcel Proust if you’re not good at reading (I’m not). So if you want to produce trashy fun stuff that caters to the common denominator I don’t think we should be that judgemental. But if it's awful stuff then that's bad.

When I write, I imagine myself listening to an imaginary CD that I’ve just bought from the store and I’m listening to for the first time. I don’t imagine how it will be played. I think about the tune and then I worry about the playing later. (But then again I’ve ever played very little of my own music, so it could be unplayable.) Anyway I’m a pianist and I don’t play any rock instruments. I don't write by imagining myself playing a song on a piano.

There’s nothing wrong with both approaches. Myself, I’m unable to write at the piano. I just have to memorise it, write it down, and then do something about it later.

I think that being able to listen to all the instruments is quite important to songwriting. I don't understand how people can write music without this ability.

I feel that Nick Drake was an utter success as a musician, even as he met his tragic end. It is not true that his lack of showmanship was irrelevant. He was, after all, depressed at his lack of commercial success. Or rather his temporary lack of commercial success, because if he had lived long enough he would have seen what is happening today.

I think that his “Man in a Shed” utterly sums up that aspect of him – he’s always dreaming about faraway princesses, but he’s just too cathartic to do anything about it. Or maybe he’s just autistic.