Pls help to recommend a digital piano for jazz piano learner

ghn4ever

New member
:( Hi every one,

I have been looking for a digital piano for the purpose of learning Jazz/blues piano, however I got lost with so many brands of DPs in the market. Well, my requirements for DPs are:

1. The touch of the keys and also the sound must be like real acoustic pianos. (Roland calls it progressive hammer-action keyboard, Yamaha calls it graded hammer effect. what's the diff between them?)

2. It must have various types of rhythm patterns. I dont really need those fancy stuff such as auto accompliment in the intelligent pianos.

3. It's mainly for home use only.

So far, some models that I have been looking at are
~ Roland RD700sx (which is too troublesome to set up),
~ Roland FP-5 (not bad, with buildin speakers),
~ Roland HP series (not sure if it has pre-installed ryhthms),
~ Yamaha CLP series (CLP280 is the way too exp but the keyborrd has 4 levels of touching)
~ Yamaha CP300 (with speakers)

Could anyone recommend a suitable digital piano for me in terms of money and function wise?
 
Hi ghn4ever, progressive hammer and graded action are both the same thing. Different manufacturers call them different thing for marketing purposes. Also, they like to confuse people... :D

This topic has been discussed in length a few times. If you do a search, you'll find some very useful info. But a quick summary:

1. CP300 will be your best bet. Yamaha has the most realistic touch compared to all others. It's a huge improvement from the predecessor P250 which was already a hit. And of course, the build-in speakers is very helpful. The only problem is the sound - Yamaha piano sounds are OK but they need to improve on their sampling technique. Higher registers are always a tad too bright. I'm not sure if it has arrived in Singapore.

2. RD700SX is one of the best (if not the best) stage piano for live performance. It's design is extremely ergonomic for quick access to what you need on the fly. Roland has thought of almost everything a live performer need; apparently they've put a lot of thought into it. Problem is, of course, no build-in speakers. For home use, you'll need to get extra speakers. But it is also a great keyboard to play with. Action not bad either. The Roland piano sound is one of the best; same goes for their orchestral sounds (ie strings etc).

3. FP-5 has build-in speakers. The action is somewhat slightly lighter to my liking. The FP series is one of those few unusual keyboards with the build-in speakers facing both towards the player (upwards) and the audience (forwards - located at the back of the keyboard). That way, both the player and the audience can hear what is played clearly. The speakers are not as good as the Yamaha. I've not tried the CP300, but the P250 speakers reverberate within the body of the unit. This adds to the "feel" of playing a real instrument - a very pleasant experience. Roland lacks that.

4. CLP series - well, if you are not going to move your keyboard around, you can get it. Don't be fooled by the number of sample/note (what Yamaha calls level of dynamic sampling). It is supposed to add to realism of the sound. But that is only as good as the sampling of the raw waveform and how long they sampe each note. I've not tried to CLP280 to comment, but most of my experience with Yamaha sound is that they sample the notes too short and then loop them. What is irritating is I can almost always hear the looping points of each note (in the P250, in the S90, in the MOTIF, in almost every piano sound I've heard). This may be different for the CLP280 - I don't know. You MUST try out the sound for yourself.

5. Roland HP series - simply one of the best upright digital pianos! I've tried both the HP-105 and the ultimate (KR grands). The touch is amazing - Roland came up with key escapement (on a real piano, when you press the keys down, you'll find there's a slight catch of which you can press it further down a notch - Roland made it the same way). Not all HP series come with escapement - only the higher series. If you have the money and portability is not an issue, the KR series will be THE digital piano to get.

This a quick review of the ones you mentioned. Don't forget to check out Korg's SP series, which to my opinion does not match up to Yamaha and Roland in terms of touch and sound. But again, sound and touch is a very subjective thing, although my opinoins tend to agree with classical and acoustic piano players.
 
the only korg digital piano that fits your bill is the SP500, with built-in drum beat generator. action wise, not anywhere near higher end yamaha stage pianos (P250, CP300).

maybe u wanna consider not having the rhythm box but instead just rely on a built-in metronome..
 
A rhythm box is a bit troublesome as one will need to hook up to external speakers. If the keyboard has build-in speakers, then it means getting speakers just for that. If the keyboard does not have build-in speakers and require monitor speakers, then it means either getting a pair of speakers with more than one audio input or a mixer. Very troublesome.

And yes, Kawai MP4 and MP8 digital pianos are supposed to be excellent. I have not played on it though - only read a lot of raving reviews about it, mainly on the real wooden keys. I really hope to get my hands (or fingers) on it one day...

And the other thing - I don't think you've mentioned your budget.
 
he stated 'must have rhthym patterns' as one of the criteria... a bit hard leh.. that will rule out all the nice stage pianos..
 
Actually, you're right. The RD700SX has rhythm built in (very basic - no variations, intro, ending etc). I'm not sure if the CP300 has that - I don't think so.

Best way to get into rhythm is getting an arranger keyboard. And they are getting better and better - also costlier. A few arrangers keyboards come into mind - Yamaha Tyros 2 and PSR3000, and Roland G70. They are simply amazing. Makes me want to get into arranger keyboard playing.
 
Hi, Iv got a 100% condition Roland RD700SX for sale/trade. pm me or sms/call 96714402 for details.

They are right. Its a top grade stage piano.
 
TO Cheez: Many thanks to your comprehensive reply.. One problem is I dont think I can get Roland KR upright DPs & FP-5 in SG. For the Roland RD700sx, unbelievable, both Swee Lee stores sold out their stocks and the next batch will be coming in 2-3 months. Yamaha CP300 does not have build in rhythm pattern for sure, I just check with yamaha sales man this afternoon. Well, Kawai DPs, I dont know where to look for them.


To iansoh: Yes, I also learned that Korg SP500 has more than 100 pre-set rhythm patterns that can be chosen on the screen. Wield thing is City Music doesnt carry this model anymore. :cry: There is only one used piece of SP500 left in Luther Music Show Room. Although it costs only 1280 bucks, there are a lot of scratches on it.

Well, I am not familiar with arranger keyboards, are they with the graded hammar action keys? Yamaha guy recommended me S90 and Roland guy recommended me Fantom S88 something.. but I am not a professional musician, dont really understand those gimmicks.
 
If your purpose is mainly jazz/blues piano, you don't have to go into workstations and synths. Do a search on the forum to find out their definitions. That means you don't need to go into Fantom, MOTIF, Triton, S90ES etc. Stick with the digital piano.

The problem with arranger keyboards is that there are hardly any weighted 88 keys except the Yamaha DGX 500 series and the new DGX 620. They are the only 88 weighted key arranger keyboards. However, I cannot vouch for their touch since I've not tried them (except for the DGX200 of which I owned for a short period of time - but it is not 88 key and not weighted). I'm not sure if they are the same generation of keys as the P250 and CP300 (of which the generation of keys are the best). You have to try them out. If you are not picky about touch, they should suffice your needs. The piano sound from the DGX is surprising not too bad for an arranger keyboard. The newer ones may have better sounds.

For Roland KR and FP series, you can always get Swee Lee to bring them in since they are the distributor for Roland. Or you can purchase online - but warranty may be an issue. Only problem is that there's no way for you to test them. But if you trust me and my review of them (having played on both of them), I would suggest forget about the FP-5 as the touch isn't too great. My friend had one FP-5 transported to her and she had to send it back as somehow it was damaged during the delivery. The KR is expensive - but the sound and touch is just marvellous. But I would suggest seriously consider the CP300 if rhythm isn't too important for you. If it hasn't arrive in Singapore, go try out the P250 in Plaza S Yamaha to get a feel.
 
I saw yamaha CP300 at Plaza Singapoura, but it does not have preset rhythms. As for P250, the specs says it has 12 drum kits. Is it the same as Rhythms ?
 
I believe the CP300 has drums as well. No, it is not the same as rhythm. They have the drum sounds which you need to sequence to give you a drum track. Rhythm is automated drum tracks. Most digital piano doesn't have it. The RD700SX has very basic one, as I said. I just plays it but doesn't do much more like the arranger keyboards.

Glad to hear CP300 has arrived in Singapore. Too bad I'm not in the country. Otherwise must try it out!

Actually for you, the CP300 may be an overkill. You may want to get the P250 instead. They may reduce the price. The CP300's main upgrade from the P250 is the midi controller capabilities. This may not be useful for you at this stage.
 
wow nice playing..

it looks like some sort of yamaha clavinova i think.. its got a built-in sequencer and rhythm machine + bass groove.
 
The bass line and drums are sequenced - that means it is programmed. It does not come from any build-in arranger rhythm. By the way, that guy is playing the Yamaha P250.
 
oh yah! that's right.. heh. didn't notice the speakers.. :) Didn't realise the p250 has so many more buttons than my p200.. heh.
 
In this case, for Jazz piano learner like me who doesnot know how to sequence, arranger keyboard such as YAMAHA DGX620 or ROLAND RD300sx/700sx is more suitable?

I have been played classical piano for a few year, however, when the rhythm comes in, I am completely lost. So I think pre-set rhythms are more impt for me.
 
IMHO, budget is most impt consideration.

once you're certain of yr budget its easier to find the best value for yr needs

If you're serious about jazz 'piano' playing, a 'proper' keybed is impt. the P250,CP300, RD700SX have graded keys which approximate a real piano. If you're a purist, you will not settle for anything less.

S90ES ,fantoms,motifs workstations etc have balanced keybeds which is useful for playing drum,string,brass,organ sounds but its of cos different even though its weighted.

why do you need the rhythm patterns? issit to do one man show?
 
yeah, IMO the rhyhtm box will only become a white elephant to you. what u really need is to learn to follow a metronome. first.

besides, there's nothing like a real acoustic piano, which is probably cheaper than a CP300.
 
I know how to follow metronome. I do have a acoustic piano and Yamaha P120 at home. But whenever I play on my teacher's Roland DP with rhythm, die.. I just can not take my eyes off the rhythm red light. He keeps asking me to relax, but how?
 
wow, u already have an acoustic piano and a p120... hmm then maybe all u need is just a drum machine with built in bass to practice along... The p120 is more than enuff for jazz playing imo.. buying a bigger keyboard with a rhythm generator won't really solve your problem if it is a playing/technical kind of a thing... u'll probably find yourself stuck again..

iansoh is right.. think u need to practice more with a metronome first maybe.. actually if u have a computer at home, u can even use that with some software to generate a rhythm easily.. :) The more u practice, the more 'relax' u will be.. :) All the best.
 
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