normal piano theory and jazz piano theory

[[vogue]angel]

i'm kinda curious over this. In normal piano theory, we only learn diatonic( tat is melodic and harmonic) but in jazz, it's all pentatonic.

Is there a diff? someone told me this i'm really blur about it. and i also dun understand why can't use the so called diatonic in jazz.....

Cheez and pf or anyone out there, can give me an insight on this?

 

[lester_music]

i think what u mean by "normal" is just classical piano theory.....

Actually normal theory whether piano or guitar or trumpet we all learn pentatonic, diatonic,modes and more...not just jazz...but for classical, mainly only diatonic(unless there is more as I am not deep into classical)...

But I have heard some classical pcs using pentatonic too..just that perhaps they don't call it pentatonic but just the right choice of notes I guess...

 

[pf]

By normal piano theory, I supposed you mean western classical music theory i.e. ABRSM grade 1 to 8. Very different from jazz. And Jazz is not just pentatonic. Hahahaha....if it is just pentatonic, then I think it would not be so interesting.

Jazz can be learnt or whateverchacallit from a few approaches. The modal approach, the western classical approach and another approach which I forgot. hehe...(was just taught a few weeks ago)

The blues is the father of jazz. And Mark Levin in his Jazz Theory book says that western classical music theory cannot explain the blues. That is because all the notes in the blues scales are dissonent in western classical music. What sounds right in jazz could be wrong in western classical music theory. Hence, they are very different.

(Which really makes me wonder about people learnt Jazz using the western classical approach, what effect or impact would there be on the playing since there would be unreconcilable differences - I asked in the Jazz ABRSM thread but think nobody has answered me yet...but nevermind, its not a life and death question)

Jazz is fun. Learn it to know and appreciate the differences.

By the way, just attended a few jazz festivals. Bought a little book on the history of jazz. Will post more if there is anything interesting.

 

[lester_music]

Gershwin...combining jazz and classical...

who always improvise in the mist of his classical playing which pisses off his teacher.....hehe...

 

[pianomankris]

Diatonic is fine in jazz. Much jazz is modal in nature, but on many occasions, the actual use of each mode will be purely diatonic.

For example, good old Bill Evans and Miles Davis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpvpyb-PXM0

('Flamenco Sketches' - such a beautiful track)


The distinction between theory and harmony should be noted.

ABRSM grades hardly touch on harmony per se, but do cover a lot of theory.


All jazz harmony is an extension of basic diatonic harmony. Pentatonic harmony can be found in all styles of music, and is in no way a derivative of jazz.

 

[faekildare]

My guitar teacher told me before, Jazz is all about feel. I could never do it because i lack the feel for it, but i guess could always start with blues to get a grip on feel than progress from then on.
Might wanna check out lydian and locrian if yur intending to approach jazz in modal ways.

 

[pianomankris]

My guitar teacher told me before, Jazz is all about feel.

But you need to have the correct tools to express yourself with.

Saying it is 'all about feel' is like saying you should open your mouth and just make a noise, rather than constructing your sounds into something discernible i.e. language. It may be emotional, but if can't be related to in a language that people understand, then it will just be 'noise'.

Might wanna check out lydian and locrian if yur intending to approach jazz in modal ways.

Or you could just say the 'diatonic major modes'

However, the melodic minor and harmonic minor modes are also very important with respect to jazz.

 

[[vogue]angel]

it's been sometime since i posted. Too busy with my work. Thanks for the reply guys

 

[wjvocalist]

Jazz is much more complicated than what it seems. A lot of intelligent thinking if u think of it cos there are so much stuff going on at the same time eg. change of scale modes, chord progression that can go really crazy. Feel is important in jazz....to get feel, I guess u must truly love jazz.

 

[Eleora]

Hello,

Anyone know of any good school or teacher for beginner Jazz keyboard lesson ? What it takes to learn and improve ?

Thanks & Regards
:roll:

 

[pf]

Jazz keyboard? Ummm...seldom heard of Jazz keyboard. Mostly Jazz piano.

 

[widdly]

really?

Check out Bill Evans playing a Fender Rhodes in 1970's From Left to Right.
Check out Herbie Hancock playing on Headhunters playing an ARP 2600.
Ray Charles on a wurlitzer, Jimmy Smith on the hammond b3. Chick Corea? Loads of great keyboards in jazz music.

Even Keith Jarret used to play electronic keyboards in the late 60's with Miles before he went all purist in the 70's.

 

[pf]

Yes, thats true. I mean seldom heard of schools teaching Jazz keyboarding here in Sg. I haven't come across from my search. If there is, can somebody post here pls. Thanks!

 

[iansoh]

No need to read too much into the definition of 'keyboard' and 'piano' lah.

 

[wjvocalist]

Yes, thats true. I mean seldom heard of schools teaching Jazz keyboarding here in Sg. I haven't come across from my search. If there is, can somebody post here pls. Thanks!

Err...I think keyboard and piano is abt the same. Just that the touch is different. Piano requires a much more technically "better" hands to play. Yes there are jazz teachers teaching but gd ones are hard to find and FREAKLY EXPENSIVE to learn with!;>

 

[pf]

Ok lor.

Nowadays its easier to 'audition' teachers. Quite a lot post videos online of themselves playing. Some will provide the links/clips when there's someone indicating interests to learn. But well of course, can only see playing skills. Cannot really guage teaching skills from there.

 

[wjvocalist]

For those interested to know more abt jazz,

there will be a jazz music meetup this coming Sunday afternoon. A real one gathering where jazz music lovers meet together. U can choose to enjoy the music as an audience or jam with the musicians. Those interested to know more, feel free to msg me.

 

[denischeung]

I am currently learning jazz piano at Echo Music. i also took a LCM grade 8 popular music theory grade 8 taught by EM and got a distinction yeah!

If you are interested in jazz piano, I think the LCM popular music theory is quite relevant. It covers the blues scale, modal scales, and some very "chim" non-diatonic scales which is often used in jazz. It also touches alot of chord constructions, and many of which are used in jazz. I think my chord construction has improved alot after reading up the LCM pop music theory.

I do agree that jazz alot abt feel, but for beginners like me, we need a way to begin with. In my jazz piano lesson I got to learn the blues scales, major blues scales, and it was a very good open door for beginners like me. Now I got to work alot on my feel and listen to alot of jazz music and learn different riffs by jazz musicians.

 

[CliftonSantiago]

Err...I think keyboard and piano is abt the same. Just that the touch is different. Piano requires a much more technically "better" hands to play. Yes there are jazz teachers teaching but gd ones are hard to find and FREAKLY EXPENSIVE to learn with!;>

True, but you're getting much more expertise than your average classical/pop teacher.
I studied with Mario for a while, damned expensive but that man is a walking ENCYLOPEDIA of musical knowledge.

 

[benjso28]

Hi,

Maybe can try playing 7th chords for a start. (some pple play altered chords, 9, 11 13 chords and etc)

Diatonic Chords in C Major Scale - Cmaj7 Dm7 Em7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 Bm7(b5)

As for basic application of modes, you can try C Ionian which is your C major over a Cmaj7 chord when in key of C

D Dorian - D E F G A B C D (same notes in C major scale but start with D) over Dm7 chord in key of C and E Phrygian (Em7), F Lydian (Fmaj7), G Mixolydian(G7), A Aeolian (natural minor scale(Am7))and B Locrian(Bm7(b5)) same same.

You can also try Chords substitution.

When playing a ii V I progression in key of C - Dm7 G7 Cmaj7, explore what other chords you can use to sub the original chords.

e.g. tritone sub i.e b5 sub. Db7 is also G7b5b9 chord

Now the same progression will become Dm7 Db7 Cmaj7

Those music sch like themusiclab, yamaha should haf teacher to teach Jazz. Private also have..

I agreed that Jazz is lots of thinking and improvising. Hee tts why I not into Jazz... wish I could :d

Cheers,

Ben