Looking to buy a classical guitar (1k budget)

[liuhao]

i am looking to get a classical guitar, with budget around 1k. have read through all the related posts here already.

hope to get a full solid wood if possible, means cedar top, rosewood side/back, ebony/rosewood fretboard.

tried yamaha CG182C (around $650). cedar top and laminated side/back. the build quality is very very good. very easy to play. but sound is all around muddy...

went down to maestro. tried C-3 and another model called ibrizia ($899) or something. both come with cedar top but laminated side/back. pros are easy to play on efxp46 strings. the setup is adjusted very well. cons is although top end E/B/G sound very clear. but bottom end D/A/E sound muddy. also build quality is far worse than yamaha...

then tried the alhambra 5p ($1299). salesman said all solid wood but after come back i check it's still cedar top with laminated side/back, with ebony fretboard. but sound is very good comparing to maestro ibrizia. but a bit hard to play...not sure if it's because that particular set. build quality similar as maestro.

tried a Japanese guitar Aranjuez 706 ($1900) at Tomas. same as yamaha, very easy to play. very very good build quality. sound better than yamaha on top end. but bottom end still can not compare to alhambra 5p. although price is a bit high. in Japan, it seems to be selling around 50k Yen which is S$800?

is there a brand/model similar as alhambra 5p but good build quality and easy to play? willing to stretch budget a bit...

thanks.

 

[loldude333]

For classicals i suggest you save up like hell and get a handmade, factory-made ones somehow cannot produce the same sound quality that a handmade one can produce. Handmade ones sound more refined, and you won't have to worry about build quality in these. They do cost a bomb though, but you'd be wise to invest in one. The strings play a big part in tone too, i suggest you try Hannabach strings, they cost a lot too but the tone is really really sweet. Clear in all registers and very nicely rounded with a little more top end.

 

[liuhao]

thanks for the reply.

in that case i shall get one that is easy to play. sound maybe the lower priority for now.

for easy to play, so far i found yamaha CG182C/CG182S is very good. next should be maestro. both considered cheap as well. will save up for next handmade one. haha...

today will give albraham 5p and 8c a last try in another shop. if playability is not good, will get yamaha or maestro.

 

[Jumpin'Jellybean]

Yamaha is overpriced imho. But whatever suits you... Alhambra makes really good guitars.

 

[liuhao]

strangely i found yamaha is the cheapest so far...maybe because their mass production volume.

eg, CG182C is $650 with solid cedar top and laminated rosewood side/back and ebony fretboard. maestro with same materials is $899, fretboard is rosewood which is considered as inferior than ebony. and alhambra with same materials is even more expensive at $1299...

of course among this three, alhambra sounds best. yamaha build quality is very refined.

 

[Jumpin'Jellybean]

Rosewood isn't inferior to Ebony, they just give different sounds. Eg, Some people think Basswood is inferior to Ash, or Mahogany, since it is so neutral sounding, but others prefer Basswood so they can try many different EQs, as compared to Mahogany which is extremely bassy sounding.
I have a Maestro Acoustic, solid spruce with laminate Mahogany. IMHO, It beats any Yamaha around that price range, or, to me, any other guitar around that price range.
So lemme ask you, why pay 1.3k for a Taylor 110 with Solid Spruce with Laminate Sides? You can get one $100 one, same specs. It's the material used, the technology used in building the guitars, etc. If you wanna compare specs, TGM would be the cheapest brand around...


Edit: Same materials have differing quality. If i'm not wrong, Taylor uses top grade spruce (AAA or AAAA).

 

[loldude333]

^Agreed. The reason why ebony is considered 'superior' is because it has a rounder, sweeter and more refined tone than rosewood. Since this sounds nicer to most people's ears, it is considered superior. I'd choose an ebony fretboard over a rosewood one anyday. Ebony also sounds better for classical IMHO, its resonance helps to carry the sound better than a rosewood one.

Wood grade also matters, the difference between an AA and an AAA spruce top is pretty marked. However, at that price range the wood grades are probably going to be roughly the same.

 

[liuhao]

somehow i feel japanese purposely turned their guitar to make it sound more conservative, and more coherent and refined across all sound range. easy to play and forgiven. i noticed very similar tonal characteristics between yamaha and Aranjuez. not sure about their top brands like kohno/sakusai though...on the other hand european brands sound more aggressive and dynamics but a bit hard to control.

 

[loldude333]

Its a consequence of the type of music they play..........Jap music is generally more soothing and flowing, thus the guitars are usually made to sound as such. Majority of European guitars are Spanish, thus they'll sound more raw and in-your-face, as Spanish music is usually loud and punchy. Think flamenco guitar with all that insane finger strumming.

Also, i'd like to know what you mean by 'harder to play'. You're referring to the action, neck shape/size/width, string tension?

 

[robb]

At your price range, even if you can find a full solid i would advice against it. Try not to let the brand, country it is made in, the material used etc to affect ur decision. The top priority would be sound/playability. Some other places u havent tried are, luthier guitar at bukit timah plaza, the owner has very poor manners but he has some good guitars there.

One reason y the yamaha sounds soft is because of the thick lacquer. A thick lacquer is more protective but is detrimental to the sound. Its not because its a consequence of the type of music they play ...........seriously, thats bull. This type of guitars tend to cover up lots of your mistakes, which could not be good for long term.

 

[liuhao]

yes by harder to play i mean action is too high, although it's adjustable.

i am almost settled down with a maestro torres fe09 with solid spruce top, solid rosewood back, ebony fretboard although laminate side. the sound is apparently much better than maestro iberia (rosewood fretboard). iberia top end sounds a bit thin, crispy and too sweet. although excellent extension but a bit lacks of body and attack. torres is just nice. price is around 1.2k

it also sounds 95% same as alhambra 8p to my ears and hands. i suspect it's follow the design of 8p thats why they sound so similar. if i close my eyes, i could hardly distinguish the sound between this two. however 8p costs 1k more than torres.

Its a consequence of the type of music they play..........Jap music is generally more soothing and flowing, thus the guitars are usually made to sound as such. Majority of European guitars are Spanish, thus they'll sound more raw and in-your-face, as Spanish music is usually loud and punchy. Think flamenco guitar with all that insane finger strumming.

Also, i'd like to know what you mean by 'harder to play'. You're referring to the action, neck shape/size/width, string tension?

 

[Jumpin'Jellybean]

If price is a consideration, then get the Maestro Torres. It is indeed a good guitar. I am a fan of Maestro guitars, although i wish they would go higher end, compete with the mid end Taylors, Ayers, Badens, etc.
If price is not a consideration, i would recommend a Taylor Nylon. Simply fantastic. I never had the privilege of owning one, i tried one at Sinamex and was very impressed.

 

[liuhao]

not sure about my next upgrade. but i have tried the alhambra 8p that costs $2.3k and could not find noticeable difference against maestro torres. haha...so i would assume that next one would cost in the range of 4k-5k?

anyone owned torres before and what's the upgrade path? haha

or anyone here customized handmade guitar before?

 

[loldude333]

@Robb: Then care to explain why the other Japanese guitars he tried had similar tonal characteristics? Not trying to be anal or anything, i'd just be interested to see why the Japan-made guitars (besides Yamahas) sound similar. I agree with liuhao's assessment. I used to be part of a guitar orchestra, and they had Japan-made altos and primes that sounded exactly the way he described. They had as thin a coat of lacquer as i've seen. Yeah hope i can just clarify this query. Cheers!

 

[robb]

normally the levels of price range are sub 500, then to 2k+/-, then to luthier made about 6k+.

I suggest u go try out some really good guitars, those way above ur budget, say 5k+. After you know what a good guitar is capable of.. try to get 1 that is within ur budget.


ok for the lower end guitars, makers tend to build to guitar with thicker tops, lacquer etc. If you tested a lot of classical guitars, u'll see that guitars with this characteristics tend to sound more or less the same, low volume, muddy and so on.
How can you say all jap guitars have the same sound? Have you tried a khono, a matsuoka or an asturias? I would more likely categorise the guitars u have tried as overly built guitars(the characteristic that i mentioned above).

 

[loldude333]

I don't profess to have tried many, but the ones my school provided were worth 3k+ each, i went down with the teacher to collect them. Its probably due to my relative inexperience in this area then, that somehow a 3k guitar and a $500 Yamaha sounded similar.

 

[liuhao]

i am very tempting to try a khono or Sakusai...just try only...haha

but somehow i dare not to even ask for it...