Jazz guitarists/ musicians sharing

[es33567]

Just wanted to start a thread where all the jazz musicians can share
their exps with
chord substitutions/embellishments
jazz guitar solo/ fingerstyle

i'm chordal/fingerstlye player and would love to hear some of the substitions u guys like to use... For eg, Cmaj7 can be subded with Em7, E7#9, Am7, C# half dim.. etc etc.
and maybe on simple progressions like 1,6,2,5 or on 2,5,1s

and also would love to hear some soloing tips from u guys like how u guys create jazz lines and so on..

piano/wind instruments are welcomed to share too. As long as it is jazz. And it doesn/t matter whether it's basic or chim.

gb

shaun

 

[vernplum]

Hello

I'm fairly new at this, but I like:

For a Cmaj7 I prefer a x3245x (some kind of 9th - prob Cmaj9)

For a Dmin7 I like a x5356x (Dmin9?)

For a G7, a dim 7, so instead of x5767x, then x6767x

 

[widdly]

Your Cmaj7 shape is a Cmaj7 and your Dmin7 shape is a Dmin7.

For a Cmaj9 try x3243x
For a Dmin9 try x5355x

If you only have one or two maj7 shapes you will get stuck trying to move through chord changes smoothly since you will have to move all around the neck. If you can visualize all the notes of a chord at once all over the neck then you should be able to find the chord anywhere on the neck and improvise on the chord anywhere on the neck.

Try practicing a iv-ii-V7-I progression but not moving out of 4 fret spaces in the left hand. Now move up a fret but don't change keys. Repeat this all the way up the neck. You will find the gaps in your chord knowledge very quickly.

 

[vernplum]

Yes - you're right! Thanks. I'm not much with the names actually- more the shapes.

I also like this instead of a G7 which I think is a 13.

3x345x

Actually I've been trying to figure out this 7#11 shape - anyone help?

 

[widdly]

G7#11

3x342x

or 343433



c7#11 x35352 or x34353 or x32352 or 212012

That 13th shape is a fave. You can play it with a maj7 too with is nice. 3x445x

 

[monk]

i take the 5 notes not in Cmajor and form a pitch collection with them. and i use it

 

[widdly]

i take the 5 notes not in Cmajor and form a pitch collection with them. and i use it

That's a pentatonic scale you got there. In the key of Eb.

 

[karlie]

i like to substitute most of 7th chords on the 6th string it's tritone (G7 becomes C#9)
and the 7th chords on my 5th strings to it's tritone (C7 becomes F#7b5)
lol 7th chords also can be generally subbed to it's 3rd (G7 becomes Bm7b5)
ok technically i'm in love with 7th chords and i always use them to pass in between chords, it's a bad habit though.

 

[vernplum]

i take the 5 notes not in Cmajor and form a pitch collection with them. and i use it

What do you mean? When you are soloing?

I call this 'instant outside'. It's great to know in order to step out of your key for a little while without having to be too sophisticated in your knowledge of all the tension tones (which I am just beginning to learn).

 

[vernplum]

Widdly - cheers for the shapes - I will try these out later.

One thing I am working through is all the Drop 2 voicings at the moment, presently, on the top 4 strings.

Consider he ii V I in C:

Dm7 | G7 | Cmaj7

I'd try out:

Dm7 xx7768
G7 xx5767
CM7 xx5557

or

Dm7 xx3535
G7 xx3433
CM7 xx2413

and so on, through all the positions.

Nice voice leading.

 

[widdly]

What do you mean? When you are soloing?

I call this 'instant outside'. It's great to know in order to step out of your key for a little while without having to be too sophisticated in your knowledge of all the tension tones (which I am just beginning to learn).

Check out the solo at the start of birds of fire by mahavishnu orchestra. He's using this idea. Soloing using a Emin pentatonic over a vamp with Ab and Bb chords. It's so wrong it's right.

 

[ssadab]

harmony

i would like to chime in with my contribution on guitar-centric harmonic thinking.
the first issue to address is the difference between substitution and embelishment. a substituition is to play either a chord of any quality based on a difrerent root or a different quality chord if the root stays the same.
embelishing a sonority can be achieved by either adding tensions (9ths 11ths and 13ths) or by incorporating moving lines within the structure of the chord.
one very useful way of thinking on the guitar is to take your 4 note structure(7th chord in this case) and move the root chromatically through all 12 notes. this gives rise to 1)complete unambiguous chords with an alternate root,filled in either by bass, by singing,or imagination 2) incomplete chords that "hint" at some kind of quality. these are the chords that have the most uses 3)modal type chords with "avoid tones" when harmony isnt used so much for movement than for a colour
for example cmaj7/c = cmaj7 which is under category 1
cmaj7/d= incomplete d7(sus4) or incomplete d-7(11/9/13) category 2
cmaj/f#= g7sus4(b5/b9) category 1
cmaj/b = b11/b9/b6 phrygian type sonority category 3
the interesting thing with this approach is that the same physical shape, which we guitarists know take a long time too program physically, leads to multiple uses. and it can lead you down the path to some interesting harmonic choices.

following this line of thought, what other possibilities can you guys think of?

 

[vernplum]

Intersting approach which I will try out! Thanks!

How do you apply this in context then? Let's say in a common progression like a ii V I?

 

[widdly]

You can get diatonic 9th chords easily using that idea. If you play a diatonic 7th chord a third above the bass note you get a diatonic 9th chord.

Eg.
Emin7 / C = Cmaj9
FMaj7 / D = Dmin9
G7 / E = Emin b9
Amin7 / F = Fmaj9
etc..

So for a ii V I in C, normally you would play Dmin7, G7 then CMaj7. You could instead play FMaj7, Bo7 then Emin7 chords, but keep the bass as D, G and C.

Another one you can use is a minor chord built of the 6th. In the key of C it is...

Amin7 / C = C6

That chord works nicely going from the I to the ii in the ii V I. Something like ..

Dmin7 G7 CMaj7 Amin7 / C