Is Moeller technique applicable for brushes?
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alvinthedrummer
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I'm no brush expert but here's my opinion....
Moeller works on manipulating the rebound of an initial stick throw. So, logically speaking, it is applicable to anything that bounces. Of course, the effects are affected by the amount of rebound you can get from the tool your are using...brushes do have a certain amount of bounciness and different brushes offer them at different levels. Also, the bounciness is also affected by how much brush you yank out of the holder....
Moeller works on manipulating the rebound of an initial stick throw. So, logically speaking, it is applicable to anything that bounces. Of course, the effects are affected by the amount of rebound you can get from the tool your are using...brushes do have a certain amount of bounciness and different brushes offer them at different levels. Also, the bounciness is also affected by how much brush you yank out of the holder....
alvinthedrummer
New member
Do check out Dave Weckl's back to basics video. He did talk about how he sets up his brushes to make them play more like sticks (rebound wise). Also, check out steve smith, you can see him maintaining a lot of the moeller motion when he plays quick singles with brushes. Jojo Mayer too....
As for me, I do make use of all the rebound I can get from brushes so I don't have to do all the work myself and most importantly, I find it gives me a slightly more open tone (except for accented notes which I choose to have a harsher, slightly choked-up sound....I would use more wrist strokes and tend to leave the brushes on the head after each hit).
Anatomyofadrumsolo
New member
In my opinion, the moeller technique cant be used on brushes as there isnt any rebound. However, you can apply the "one-handed" roll technique on a pair of brushes. Ive done that before and its great.
Anyway, for those of you who dont know, just a little lesson.
The Moeller technique is a technique invented by a drummer named Sanford Moeller. Many people have different ways to executing the moeller stroke but it still has the general whipping motion.
Anyway, for those of you who dont know, just a little lesson.
The Moeller technique is a technique invented by a drummer named Sanford Moeller. Many people have different ways to executing the moeller stroke but it still has the general whipping motion.
alvinthedrummer
New member
Ok....if Jojo, weckl and steve smith's names are not convincing enough...perhaps someone who no one really knows might help convince us mere mortals that it is possible:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCFpc1xbsCk
Check out from 1:40 onwards....
I think there is sufficient rebound...even on my 16" floor tom, I can still find some rebound with brushes....
Check out from 1:40 onwards....
I think there is sufficient rebound...even on my 16" floor tom, I can still find some rebound with brushes....
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USADRUMMER
New member
**deleted**
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alvinthedrummer
New member
Hey Bruce!
Yes, since there is really only a small amount of rebound you can get from brushes, it is pretty pointless trying to execute a full moeller.
By the way, your jazz clips sounds great! Please keep them coming!
Yes, since there is really only a small amount of rebound you can get from brushes, it is pretty pointless trying to execute a full moeller.
By the way, your jazz clips sounds great! Please keep them coming!
plainsman
New member
i am pretty sure there is moeller in brushes!
the thing is, which aspect of moeller are we talking about?
in musicians institute teachings (imparted to me from ray aziz), moeller was taught with the syncopated hi-hat pattern often used by the late great jeff porcaro and dave weckl.
in drum collective in recent years, my good friend boey shared with me that they grouped moeller into 4 different implementations. the push-pull method is actually being taught as part of moeller.
my take on moeller, is that moeller is more of a concept rather than a specific technique.
you use natural body motion and the rebound of the stick to play more economically, to get more speed and power, rather than just execute motions which traditional major from the fulcrum, wrist and fingers.
because of this, i found a lot of my strokes often executed with a lot of elbow and forearm motion.
for a large part of my playing, i have found it more comfortable for me ie. i feel more relaxed, i am more fluid and i can "think ahead" to the next few strokes when I play.
in observing drummers like jeff hamilton and brian blade, i found they've got such a good form and flowing motion going, i tend to feel they do apply some concepts of moeller in their playing, (take right hand whipping motion from the floor tom to crash cymbal as an example).
the other important thing is.. can you use the sound/colour you get from applying moeller to your brush playing?
i'd say its very possible, but subject to differences depending on what you define as moeller, and/or brush playing in general.
i've been studying a lot of brush masters as part of my recent interest in brush playing.
i checked out the following guys:
philly joe jones - whom i thought was the father for a lot of things on the drumset
max roach, who tribute philly joe himself, esp that hihat solo
ed thigpen, i thought he was better with his hands than on brushes, that thing he did on titoro as part of billy taylor jazz documentaries was just amazing! but his dvd is pretty good foundation education material
peter erskine, (the videos on vic firth and his work on diana krall) his tone and touch is so lovely, although he didn't share it so much (the videos were a bit 'long winded') i think he careful attention to basic legato brush is his way of imparting the roots of how he got his brush playing to higher level.
jeff hamilton, he shared the importance of leaving a brush on the head at all times, and the fact you always have the option of hitting the skin sideways as opposed to just a vertical snap.
clayton cameron, not yet enough of stuff, but his dvd is sitting in my christmas stockings :mrgreen: i shall watch it very soon..
brian blade, i don't know when he whips out his brush, or switches to mallets, but this guy takes the cake for me all-time so far. his playing is so sensitive. in studying as much of the original jazz history/brush masters, i observed his playing and found him studied inmost of jazz history, he is innovating at the frontier and playing stuff that's not been there before.
maybe we cld get together and study this brush thing with moeller a little further. i see a lot of innovative brush playing from modern players (ted campbell, marcus baylor) and its really a whale of time just checking out and then playing some more.
cheers and have a good x'mas !!!
the thing is, which aspect of moeller are we talking about?
in musicians institute teachings (imparted to me from ray aziz), moeller was taught with the syncopated hi-hat pattern often used by the late great jeff porcaro and dave weckl.
in drum collective in recent years, my good friend boey shared with me that they grouped moeller into 4 different implementations. the push-pull method is actually being taught as part of moeller.
my take on moeller, is that moeller is more of a concept rather than a specific technique.
you use natural body motion and the rebound of the stick to play more economically, to get more speed and power, rather than just execute motions which traditional major from the fulcrum, wrist and fingers.
because of this, i found a lot of my strokes often executed with a lot of elbow and forearm motion.
for a large part of my playing, i have found it more comfortable for me ie. i feel more relaxed, i am more fluid and i can "think ahead" to the next few strokes when I play.
in observing drummers like jeff hamilton and brian blade, i found they've got such a good form and flowing motion going, i tend to feel they do apply some concepts of moeller in their playing, (take right hand whipping motion from the floor tom to crash cymbal as an example).
the other important thing is.. can you use the sound/colour you get from applying moeller to your brush playing?
i'd say its very possible, but subject to differences depending on what you define as moeller, and/or brush playing in general.
i've been studying a lot of brush masters as part of my recent interest in brush playing.
i checked out the following guys:
philly joe jones - whom i thought was the father for a lot of things on the drumset
max roach, who tribute philly joe himself, esp that hihat solo
ed thigpen, i thought he was better with his hands than on brushes, that thing he did on titoro as part of billy taylor jazz documentaries was just amazing! but his dvd is pretty good foundation education material
peter erskine, (the videos on vic firth and his work on diana krall) his tone and touch is so lovely, although he didn't share it so much (the videos were a bit 'long winded') i think he careful attention to basic legato brush is his way of imparting the roots of how he got his brush playing to higher level.
jeff hamilton, he shared the importance of leaving a brush on the head at all times, and the fact you always have the option of hitting the skin sideways as opposed to just a vertical snap.
clayton cameron, not yet enough of stuff, but his dvd is sitting in my christmas stockings :mrgreen: i shall watch it very soon..
brian blade, i don't know when he whips out his brush, or switches to mallets, but this guy takes the cake for me all-time so far. his playing is so sensitive. in studying as much of the original jazz history/brush masters, i observed his playing and found him studied inmost of jazz history, he is innovating at the frontier and playing stuff that's not been there before.
maybe we cld get together and study this brush thing with moeller a little further. i see a lot of innovative brush playing from modern players (ted campbell, marcus baylor) and its really a whale of time just checking out and then playing some more.
cheers and have a good x'mas !!!
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yayeyiyoyu
New member
Yes. What really matters most when dealing with the moeller technique is actually the moeller downstroke and the upstroke, both of which do not require rebound to function and are mostly generated from the arm.
The taps in between both strokes require you to use your wrist to control them so that your playing is clean. However, many often mistake these taps to be only "rebound" which is not correct, although rebound can help greatly, it is not essential.
I'm not sure if my explaination is clear though. hahaha
The taps in between both strokes require you to use your wrist to control them so that your playing is clean. However, many often mistake these taps to be only "rebound" which is not correct, although rebound can help greatly, it is not essential.
I'm not sure if my explaination is clear though. hahaha
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