D.I Boxes

[slapadelic]

I need some advice guys. we've heard loads about this magical tone tool called D.I boxes yet i cant get my mind over how this thing works proper. I do understand that EQing matters alot and i do know that Engineers like to use the XLR feed from the D.I. boxes since its cleaner. My main question is how i can improve my stage sound with one? Or isit really quite useless in that sense?

I did some research and here is an excerpt from wikipedia:

Electric bass guitar/Acoustic guitar

When dealing with electric bass or acoustic guitar, a DI is most often preferable to using a microphone on an amplifier. This is because these instruments are often valued in a mix for being clean. The signal path from the instrument should go into the DI unit and should then pass through to any sort of instrument amplifier. Often any amp used in this setup would be for monitoring purposes only, with the major component of the sound coming from the balanced send of the DI. The DI should be chosen with the specifications of the individual instrument in mind. Often the best possible tone is achieved by one stage of preamplification. Following this idea, an active instrument, which means that the instrument has a preamplifier inside of it, should utilize a passive DI unit, while a passive instrument, meaning there is no preamplifier inside, should utilize an active DI.



In the last part of the passage, it says a passive instrument should use an active DI and an active one should use a passive D.I.

I have been thinking of getting a SansAmp D.I or a Swadosky D.I to help gain a higher control of my tone while adding warmth. I'm playing through and active bass so am i making a mistake of getting a Active D.I. which has a built in pre-amp while my bass also has a built in pre-amp?

Okie, sorry if i sound confused.. well i am. haha.. help, someone?

 

[djtommy]

You might also want to check out the Bassbone.

http://tonebone.com/tb-bassbone.htm

I'm using one right now with my Jazz bass and Ibanez. Works for me.

Hope this helps.

 

[Colarndo]

A standard D.I's purpose is to give a balanced signal(or grounding/lifting it)to the mixer. It should in no way color the sound at all. It can be used for any instrument with a line output.
Other Instrument-Oriented D.I s are actually like an instrument/EFX pre-amp(Like BOSS Pedals), except with a balanced XLR output.
The reason why no one dares to mic a bass amp is obvious, low freq vibrations will "rock" the mic making it unstable and adding noise that cannot be filtered out(No point pushing the low cut as it will filter out 80Hz)

 

[cherns]

There's really no hard and fast rule about needing to use a passive/active DI for any type of bass. I used to play through an EBS microbass, but now I play mostly through a simple Boss DI...

and due to my incessant GASing, I've got a REDDI coming in next week (on my birthday no less!) Good times

 

[slapadelic]

hey guys, well.. thanks for the response! I think unless i am gonna record or the sound guy repeatedly asks for mine, i wont need to have it. Cheers.

 

[0vid]

The reason why no one dares to mic a bass amp is obvious, low freq vibrations will "rock" the mic making it unstable and adding noise that cannot be filtered out(No point pushing the low cut as it will filter out 80Hz)

This is pure conjecture. A properly positioned mic does not suffer from 'rocking'. Mic'ed bass cabinets give the FOH or recording engineer a mic'ed cabinet tone, which carries the flavour of the speakers. This is done variously to obtain the tone that only a mic'ed speaker can give you. In live situations, many people use an off stage cabinet in a cabinet to get a mic'ed cabinet sound. Even RUSH did this live. Often direct signals are mixed with a mic'ed cabinet, to give some control over extreme low and hi end (via direct signal) and pronounced mids (via mic'ed cabinet).

 

[Colarndo]

Dear Ovid, I was only explaining what I was taught through my audio courses on the reasons why vibrations affected the mic on the stand. Again I apologise for once again using an unfamaliar generic term "rocking" to make it seem simplier to softies here to understand. I am sure that your detailed technical explainations will continue to enlighten fellow softies.
I am sorry if what my teachers who are from the audio industry gave wrong information to me and I absorbed it. After all, it did seem realistic to me since bass amps are seldom miked in live situations(mostly guitar amps) , and if they are, only in the recording stuido where the sound is better controlled.

 

[godchuanz]

Hi,

Do you need the DI box because you need to send a balanced signal to the FOH mixer? If it's just for "tone purposes", I think an equalizer will be better suited.

If you get the Sansamp BDDI, however, you'll see that it has 3 outputs:
- a balanced XLR, which is the primary reason why people get a DI box
- an effected 1/4" output
- an uneffected 1/4" output

You can send the XLR (effected) to the FOH, 1/4" effected to your amp, and uneffected 1/4" to a tuner so you can see your tuning while playing.

The Sansamp BDDI is not just a DI, it changes your tone quite a bit too. I think many people get it for tone purposes rather than the DI purpose. You might want to try it out, it's a pretty good gadget to have for bass.

 

[reyrey]

since bass amps are seldom miked in live situations(mostly guitar amps)

really ah? some of the pubs that i visit got mike the bass amp ley bro... :smt017

 

[Colarndo]

Seldom la bro, so far every church I go to, the Bass all D.I.
Just went to Tampines Solka today, the bass also D.I.

 

[reyrey]

church?Tampines Solka is?church?...nah actually i saw some of the pub do mike the bass amp dude...but no point proving which one is better la,since i wont get any money from this,haha :wink:

 

[dude]

so how do you really know if a DI is an active or a passive DI?

like for the hartke, MXR, behringer, sansamp, which ones are active and which ones are passive. its really quite hard to understand the responses you all gave, when someone like me who has no prior proper knowledge in audio, to understand.

also, can someone explain these terms? XLR, effected(uneffected) 1/4 outputs or something like that. really dying to find out all these stuff.

 

[godchuanz]

XLR is the connection used on studio microphones. It is exactly what a DI box output should be. Basically, you can think of it as "the DI makes the mixer believe that you are feeding it a microphone". XLR gives you balanced signal, allows you to run far longer distances than an unbalanced one. Next time you go jam (in a proper studio), take a look at the microphone and the cable. The one that has a much bigger head than your guitar cable. That is XLR.

1/4" is what your ordinary guitar cable looks like.
1/8" is what your iPod headphones look like.

Effected and uneffected applies to the Sansamp BDDI. The effected 1/4" changes your tone. Think of it as any other guitar pedal. You plug guitar in, and what comes out is an effected 1/4" output.
The uneffected 1/4"... is just a parallel output that doesn't run through the BDDI circuitry.

 

[dude]

so am i right to say that the XLR thingy is more related to studio recording purposes and its more of a terminology for recording?
also, so the uneffected 1/4" doesnt affect your tone?

 

[Colarndo]

Regarding the miking up, I'm Christian actually, that explains the churches I have visited so far. As for the Soka thing, I am playing there only cos it's the only place that offers gigs to my band w/o strings attached...
But cost-wise, the microphone used on the bass amp, can only be used for the kick drum AS WELL, as the frequency range is similar. But a standard D.I box, can be used on all guitars/keyboards and is usually cheaper. And leakage of noise into the mic is not a worry. I would talk about vibrations(or accidental kicking of the mic stand due to over zealous musicians) that affect the mic stand but dear Ovid would rebute me on that claim.
XLR and 1/4 TRS connections"(Tip Ring Sleeve for stereo/Tip Sleeve for mono)", both can be plugged directly to the console as it accepts both inputs.
As many times D.I boxes have been re explained again and again, I'm not going there. All I want to say is that, the XLR provides "phantom" power from the console to power up the D.I box. Whichever is more convenient for the soundman, A D.I box or a mic stand will be used.

 

[0vid]

There is a lot of confusion here.

XLR connections are not limited to studio use, any common stage microphone would use an XLR connector. An XLR conector , male or female, was a development of CANNON, who have now been bought up by some other conglomerate. Hence, you will hear them referred to also as "Cannon" jacks or sockets. XLRs are not strictly limited to 3 pin connectors, there are many forms of XLRs though in professional audio, balanced audio signals (1 ground, 2 polarity opposed signals) can be carried in any three pin connector and consequently, the XLR3 (or the common audio XLR) is used. A three pin 1/4" phone socket or jack can be used for this purpose and is space saving but not locking (like XLRs) - these are your 1/4" TRS - tip ring sleeve, or commonly "Stereo" sockets or jacks. Bantam connections can also carry 3 pin signals and are less common, except on patch bays. XLR 3 pin connectors are not limited to microphone usage; they are used where ever you need a locking connector which can benefit from having multi pin connections, it has been used with speakers etc.

A 'direct' box, is a short description of a device that allows direct injection. Effectively this means that electronic signals are directly injected into a mixing console, and bypasses a microphone. Earlier consoles were usually only fitted with microphone inputs and an impedance matching device, allowing the imepdances of instruments to be matched to typical 600 ohm mic inputs, allow for 'direct injection' and are therefore referred to in brief as 'direct boxes'.

In the modern day, most consoles have variable inputs or switchable inputs. A Direct box is not always necessary if you can feed a line level signal for your instrument; though in a recording situation you may find variances in frequency response, audio response etc and a DI device via a mic input may or may not be preferable for audio reasons. In a live situtation, this is usually not critical unless you are recording critically.

A passive Di device matches impedance via the use of a transformer, JENSEN ones having a very good reputation, and an active DI device uses electronic circuitry to convert signals to the approrpriate impedance.

Phantom power, is sometimes used to power microphones, or other deivces, and depending on your mixing console is sometimes switchable indivdually, in banks or sometimes unswitchable. In the last case, you may want to be cautious, as universal phatom power, or even banked phantom power can sometimes fry your line level ojutputs or "DI" capable instrument or XLR amplication output. A transformer coupled output, or a passive transformer DI device is normally safe from phantom power interference.

Mic'ing low frequency items in a live situation is often a studio throwback - people tend to use what they use in the studio. This is often not necesary unless you are in a critically controlled audio arena. In most live situations, especially outdoor sitautions, you will find that anything below 70hz will boom uncontrollably or be allover the place. A properly positioned and secured microphone will pickup the desired tone if you wish to pick up that tone, and frankly a bass drum is more threat to a microphone and its holder than a bass amp cab will ever be. You will find in outdoor situations, that picking up the low mids may be all you need to amplify the particular instrument for public audibility. Most of the signal below 70hz is not that critical, and you will find that an SM57 would work in most of these situations, on a bass amp or on a bass drum. You could use a microphone with a larger diaphragm but you may find little audible difference in live situations in many arenas. If you are playing a controlled concert hall, a studio mic'ing situation may be prefereable.

 

[3notesAbar]

Thanks for taking the time to clear things up 0vid.

 

[exin]

i've gotta admit .. that's really detailed .. and comprehensive .. thanks 0vid

 

[dude]

thanks for clearing up all my questions man! that was really comprehensive.