Buying a Keyboard

S

sunshinesarah

New member
Hi all

I know this is an oft repeated thread, but thought I'd check out what the latest info on hand might be.

I've got classical piano background, but have left it behind for more than 10 years. Am keen to pick it back up again, but because I don't have a permanent place, a classical upright piano is out of the question (I move at least once every 2-3 yrs)

I'm wondering what might be your thoughts might be if I have the following needs:
1) 76-88 key range that will enable me to play most classical pieces
2) The ability to experiment with a mix and blend of sounds - I'm a beginner to this, and I thought it'd also be a good time to explore these if I'm going to get a musical instrument
3) something that's not too expensive. I'm even willing to buy 2nd hand. But I'd like to also see if I want to and can go back into the music scene on a more permanent basis before heavily investing in an instrument, so anything below $1-1.5K would be good

I'm not keen on very electrical music - more classic stuff, pop and P&W even.....this is more for the purposes of self-expression.

I've seen recommendations for Casio WK1800, Yamaha DGX and the S09. I've also explored the Korg and Triton sites and just see a major onslaught of info.

Thought I'd seek some of your help to gain some focus.

Thanks in advance for the info. Will be looking forward to your replies. :)

sarah.
 
Hi. You may want to stay clear of 76 keys. For your needs, you want a fully weighted digital piano that feels as close to the real piano as possible with the usual bread and butter sounds including some strings and e-piano.

So your minimum is an 88 key since you can't get fully weighted 76 keys digital pianos. It is very hard to get a weighted digital piano at your budget. My suggestion is the Yamaha P250. It has graded touch (heavier on lower keys and lighter on higher keys - so better emulation of the real thing). Also has great sounds and build in speakers. Hard to get this second hand but it is a good long term investment.

There is no S09. There is an S08 and S90 - both of which are balanced weighted keys. They are still OK but you may want graded - but if you're not too picky, they are fine. They have no build-in speakers so you'll have to buy external monitors or use a headphone. The Yamaha DGX series is really a portasound and I don't recommend it for you.
 
Thanks, Cheez for the recommendation. I've read some of your posts, and respect your comments.

Just did a quick net checkup though, and whoa, it IS quite pricey. And since it's fairly new, yeah, I doubt very much there'd be anyone selling it 2nd hand pretty soon :)

And yes, as much as possible, I must say I'd love to have a weighted 88-key piano. A 76-key would simply be settling, since price is still a consideration in view of me not having gone back full fledged into music. But! Am intending to take some music lessons again soon, so who knows!

Am just wondering - what about Korg digital pianos, the SP series I believe? I haven't yet checked out the price for new ones, but there's an SP200 that's just been posted for 2nd hand sale at $1,500. Would that be a consideration?

Btw, would such digital pianos also be able to play David Foster kinda songs, or like Josh Groban's "When You Say You Love Me" kinda songs (I'm hoping you know what I'm referring to)
 
the SP-200 at $1.5k is over-priced. i believe you can get it brand new for about that price or even less. I practice regularly on one and I think the action is good. in terms of sound, you will need to hear it for yourself and decide whether u like it or not. there are some Korg-characteristic overtones in the piano timbre which some may not like.

the SP-300 has built-in speakers which might be good for you if you don't want to have additional bulky amps to have to move house with. it is essentially an SP-200 with built-in speakers. don't expect great sound though.

i'll take the liberty to answer some of your questions directed at cheez, if you don't mind..

the clavinova is much less portable than these digital stage pianos. the SP200 can easily be carried by one person but a clavinova will defintiely require at least two.

in terms of features, the basic clavinovas have about the same abilities as the standard digital piano. the higher end ones have built-in drums, automated accompaniment, wider range of sounds e.g strings, brass, synths, percussion etc. most digital stage pianos invariably sport a standard set of sounds: acoustic piano, rhodes, wurlitzer, clavinet, harpsichord, pipe organ, strings. higher end ones may have more sounds, but are also associated with significantly higher price.

for a budget of 1-1.5k, your choice may be limited to the korg sp200, kurzweil SP88X. if you're lucky, a yamaha p80 - I believe someone is currently selling one for 1.2k
 
CHECK IT OUT:

Date posted : 31 October 2005
Yamaha P80 and Korg SP300 for sale.Both are in mint condition and asking for 1.2k and 1.7k respectively.Interested please email or sms 97606040,thank you!
Email:xound79@hotmail.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date posted : 31 October 2005
I've got a mint condition CME UF8 88-key fully weighted midi controller that I must sell before moving to HK (very soon.) Any takers? Please call or SMS Ken at 9390-1236.
Email:knwusa@hotmail.com
 
For cheaper keyboards without speakers, you'll need to add the cost of external speakers into your budget.

You'll have to trade good weighted action for cost. Really good action keyboards are more costly. If you're not too picky about it and just want standard weighted keyboards, the Roland ep series are also quite OK. They are low cost with built-in speakers. Swee Lee used to have those - I don't see them there anymore but you can ask them. They don't have the greatest action but they are weighted.

Otherwise, as Iansoh suggested, you may have to check out the Korg SP200 from City Music and consider getting external speakers. I think the Roland RD300SX (or if you can still find the RD150) are better than the SP200 in terms of touch, playability and sound - at about the same cost. Also need external speakers which you will need to add into your cost.
 
Hi sunshine,

It does pay off to invest a bit more on what you want, especially if it is, as you have mentioned, for self expression. You might set yourself up for disappointment later by getting something less desirable just to save a few bucks.

Personally, I do find Yamaha and Roland better in terms of kybd feel and sounds (and if you are crazy over the inspiring legendary DX7 EP sound like me, Yamaha's the one!). However, verrrrrry important is that you do go try them yourself and like what you touch and hear!
 
Thanks for all the nuggets of info.

Yup. I guess there's only one thing left before the purchase - to actually try them out. Was actually at Yamaha 3 days ago trying to make some sense of the instruments, but not having touched the piano in THAT long (like 10 yrs?), simple plinky plonks just to test the feel of the pianos just didn't quite cut it.

Thank goodness I'll have a weekend with my childhood piano again soon to reaclimatize myself with the feel of it all.

Will let you know what I do end up with!! Now that the idea of picking up where I left off has been planted by the possibility of actually purchasing something permanent, I can't wait to let my fingers run again. :)
 
sunshinesarah, you can also take a look at http://www.cme-pro.com/product.html

these are basically keyboard controllers. they have no built-in sound but you can add your choice of sound module or software synthersizer and knock yourself crazy - playing i mean.
 
Just out of curiosity.......

Would you guys know what kinda instrument David Foster would be playing when he plays his songs? the Synth or the digital Piano?
 
Btw, would the P series allow drum or percussion accompaniment to the piano playing? e.g. having the percussions set the rhythm in the background?
 
Thanks to the invention of MIDI, the possibilty of combining kybd gears to have the ultimate music setup of your choice is endless. What's more, with PC music being more accessible, kybd players are indeed in the right era!

Well, Sunshine, you just have to work out your budget and prioritise your music needs. Personally, I started out with a 2nd hand $x00 synth and then slowly worked my way to a $2k+ workstation.

Importantly, improve on playing skills...I always believe that even the worst kybd can sound heavenly in the hands of a skilled kybd player - Believe me, in those days of M1, D70 and SY77, I have been very impressed with the surreal live demos.
 
Heh. Shopping didn't end up as extensive as I would've liked. Ended up only going to Swee Lee, and back to Yamaha.

Tried out the RD....it wasn't even a close 2nd to Yamaha...not the P250, not the P140, nor the P120.....I think it was way too light even at the super heavy setting, and I didn't feel like I was playing something that was alive. It was difficult to hear the difference between piano and fortissimo...took a lot of banging...pianissimo was almost non-existent. It felt almost like a toy - until I compared it to the unweighted keyboards. Then again, my benchmark was the piano. But on the bright side, it reminded me yet again of my initial desire for "as close to the real thing as possible". Touch wise, the RD just won't do.

As for the sound, I think I should bring headphones in the future. They hooked it up to the amps, but something didn't sound right....initial sounds were pretty good, then don't know what happened, or what they tweaked, the upper notes all sounded very jarring, and very high pitched. Plus they surprisingly didn't know how to get the whole setup working well together - though they did try very hard. It didn't seem like something they did very often - hooking up the RD for demos. So no, unfortunately I didn't get a good feel of the sounds

So yeah. Figured the RD would probably be out - first for feel, 2ndly, because it doesn't have built in speakers - I don't think I wanna even start figuring out monitors and sound stuff when it's difficult enough figuring out which keyboard to get! Which is a pity. Cos I really like the host of features the RD offers and its price if you don't consider the need for speakers, is comparable to the P250, cheaper even.

Went back to Yamaha after that and tried the new P140 they brought in, 120's baby brother. Feel and touch - felt way better than the RD, partly cos also of the vibrations that give feedback to the fingers. P140 had better sounds than the P120. Between the P250 and P140, I'd say the P250 was definitely more responsive. As for sounds....I found it hard to tell the diff even with earphones.

The P250 is going at $3,443 and the P140 at $2,125....I'm not sure yet if the difference in feel and responsiveness justifies the $1,300 difference. That said, the P250 has a whole lot of features that would be fun to play with once I get my piano back - guess the question I'll have to ask myself is whether the fun's worth that premium too or not - as well as the increased responsiveness. The P140 does look more aesthetically pleasing to the eye though.

Another thought is that if I do end up going for the P140, then should I still consider the other 2 - Korg and Casio Privia. At least these have auto accompaniment, and some other features. Guess I should still go try out the Korgs and Casio again so that when I do end up deciding on the Yamaha, I know I've tried them out. Though at the mo, I'm quite biased towards Yamaha already, especially after the disappointment with the RD heh. Though I'll prob still give the RD one more shot.

another alternative would be just to get the P140, then sell it when I get my piano back, and hopefully by then the P250 will have a baby brother that's better.

fudge fudge fudge...........Heh, any thoughts? I met someone in the shop who previously had normal keyboards and now is buying the P140....was thinking to myself he had the greater advantage of not having to compare to the piano, so anything else feels nice and weighted. Then again, I wouldn't trade my piano background for anything

Btw, Yamaha's having a 1-day sale of the P120S coming up to clear stock, at S$1,900 per piece. He's supposed to call me when the time comes. Anyone else interested? Let me know. Oh, and think they're also having their year end sale already.......
 
It's a pity about the RD700SX. It is really a very good keyboard. I hope Swee Lee people are listening here. This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened. When I asked them if I can try out a keyboard, it takes them 5 minutes to figure out how to connect it to an amp (and a lousy amp as well), another few minutes looking for a sustain pedal, and a few minutes in between grumbling. And then I had to play the keyboard standing up because there was no stool. Always happens there. Swee Lee, please take note. You are losing customers.

The RD700SX piano sound is definitely way better than the best Yamaha digital pianos. Touch wise, it is not as realistic to a piano as the Yamaha. But then the RD700SX is a stage piano. Keyboardists play other sounds besides the piano. We want unweighted for Hammond/organ and strings, we want weighted for piano sounds - hard to find a good hybrid and balance. The RD700SX definitely is a good mix for stage use. Not to mention the faders are great controls. If looking for a keyboard to be at home playing mostly piano, then Yamaha touch is still better. Perhaps it's because of their years of experience making acoustic pianos. Otherwise for performance, I will go for the RD.

I sold my RD700 a number of years ago (because I was going overseas - really painful to sell it). Sold it to a pianist who came to my place. I wasn't home then, but I was told that she tried it with headphones (she may have brought her own, I think), heard the sound and felt the touch, she said, "This is it!". She got it immediately.

I will suggest trying out the RD700SX again either with good monitors (perhaps this is too hard to ask of Swee Lee?) or headphones. Try the best grand piano sound they have. It is certainly VERY ALIVE! If not for buying it, try it to listen how a hardware/ROMpler piano should sound like!
 
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