Bass Rc Booster First or a Compressor???

[funkygeos]

Hello softies, i just setup a simple chain recently. i got a bass Rc booster and a compressor DOd fx82 in my chain but i'm not sure to place the booster or the comp last in my chain?? Pls Advise, thanks. My current chain is:-

Bass> comp fx82> Boss chorus Ce-2b> Byoc Large Beaver(in loop)> Xotic Xblender> xotic bass rc booster.

 

[Colarndo]

I would put the Compressor 2nd last in the chain. And maybe the chorus last in the chain if the chorus decays get chopped off by the compressor.. Booster at the start.

 

[funkygeos]

Thx for the advise. Can the bass comp put infront? If the bass comp is to compress my raw signal in front.. it will not chop the chorus decay, am i right? If i'm using a good amp with it own comp, do i need to use a comp pedal??

 

[Colarndo]

You can put the compressor at the front, but do note the Bass RC Booster will increase certain frequencies at different volumes according to how you adjusted the booster.

That means you have compressed the raw signal from your bass, than you are re boosting it again with the RC. And I do not see the point of doing that.

As for amp compression, it's really up to you. May or may not work out for you. Some people go as far as to buy a rack mount compressor.

 

[funkygeos]

Thanks again. You have brighten me. Anyway, do u have any good compressor to recommend? T-Rex Squeezer?? Punch factory?

 

[godchuanz]

Actually, I think it depends on why you need a booster.

Unless I'm badly mistaken, boosters like the RC booster act as transparent gain stage. This could be useful for 1 of the following applications:
1) amplifying low-ouput (typically, passive) instruments for line-level transmissions
2) as a pre-gain before an overdrive (or any other effect which reacts differently to different levels)
3) as gain compensation after a gadget that takes away volume

In the case of 1, you'd want your booster as close to your bass as possible, with as little cable in between.
In the case of 2, you'd want it just before your overdrive .
In the case of 3, you'd want it just after the particular gadget that causes a volume drop.


As a side note, I believe most people put their compressors right at the start of their signal chain, and with good reason - to smoothen their playing.
Putting it at the back of the chain sounds like something effects-crazed geeks will do in attempt to achieve novelty effects. But still, do try it out. If you get a cool sound out of it, do share it!

 

[iverson763]

+1 to godchuanz. my compressor's at the start of the chain, my dirt pedals come after. Besides, each of 'em already have some sort of a compression in it. Of cos, whatever gives you good sound, go for it

btw, you can try using a modded cs-3. it works pretty nicely for me. Noise issues? maybe slight to the sensitive, but it feels like a forum myth to me

 

[funkygeos]

GUys, if the booster is use to boost my clean tone. Should the booster before comp or comp before booster? Pls give advise.. -_-"

Booster>Comp? Comp>Booster??

 

[godchuanz]

Try both and see how it differs

If you put it after the compressor, it acts as a "post-gain", or "make-up gain".
You will be boosting your compressed signal. It SHOULD sound roughly the same as your normal compressed signal, only louder.

If you put it before the compressor, it acts as a "pre-gain".
Since higher levels = more compression, when you turn on the booster, there will be more compression and maybe even distortion (on heavier compression settings).

 

[Colarndo]

The idea of a compressor is to level out the volume by reducing dynamic range of a given signal. (lowering down the peaks in a signal in your case)

Higher levels does not necessary mean more compression, I can always lower the input level of the compressor, reduce the compression ratio.

Make-Up Gain adjusts the overall volume, that the fact compression gave you better headroom by reducing those peaks, so you can bring the overall volume up again.

So if you put the RC booster after your compressor, and start increasing those certain frequencies, you are in theory, re expanding your dynamic range, as those certain frequencies now have lesser headroom than others.

So what use is your compressor for? If you are gonna just boost everything again and you are back to square one? Might as well not use a compressor right?

 

[godchuanz]

Colarndo,
A higher input level will mean higher compression. Yes, you can lower your compression ratio to reduce compression, but still, compared to a lower level input, it will still be compressed more. I also doubt you will want to turn some knob on your compressor every time you hit the booster on.

Compression reduces your dynamic range, true. But a booster does not expand your dynamic range.

What I was saying is: A booster can be used as make-up gain, which means, after the compressor. In fact, most compressors come with in-built make-up gain stage. If it's pointless to have make-up gain, why do most compressors come with it?

The fact is: A clean booster should never expand your dynamic range.

If you look at guitar players and their gadgets, you'll notice some of them like to put a booster before an overdrive (which is really a kind of a compressor), to give it "gain" at certain sections of songs. That's exactly what putting a booster before a compressor does: give you more edge through higher compression.

And since funkygeos wanted a clean boost (presumably as a boost during solos or song parts requiring louder bass), it would be best to place the booster after the compressor.

 

[funkygeos]

Thanks again for all yr valuable inputs, just any question. Can i say that if i wanted a tight compressed bass tone throughout a song, and with my booster always on active, the booster is best placed in front of the comp?

 

[Colarndo]

I was referring to the term "expansion" as in placing the booster after the compressor part. Since in theory after the compression has been done, the signal is altered with those certain frequencies boosted. Which I meant the peak level has changed. So in a way, that signal has expanded its dynamic range once more with the booster.

Really Clean Boosters w/o frequency adjustments which would be simply a volume knob.
But the RC Booster can increase certain frequency parameters.
So these certain frequencies have been boosted have lesser headroom than the others which were not boosted. So their dynamic range has been increased since the peak levels for those frequencies are now much higher than before? So you have lesser headroom to work with now?

Am I wrong?

 

[godchuanz]

Colarndo,
You are suggesting that the equalization function of a booster (or any other gadget, for that matter) will nullify a compressor's function by "increasing dynamic range". And this, I believe is a fallacy. A booster SHOULD NOT affect dynamic range, even with EQ function. Think about this: many people use EQ after compression. Does EQ-ing after compression render the compressor pointless?

Also, from the way you talk about headroom, it seems that you believe every frequency has its "own headroom" and "dynamic range", which is not quite right. If you boost a certain frequency (EQ), it takes up some headroom. Dynamic range SHOULD NOT be affected. Both "headroom" and "dynamic range" describe the signal, not the individual frequency components.


funkygeos,
I don't understand why you would want to leave your booster permanently active. If you're looking to EQ your signal, I believe an EQ would suit the job better. If you just want to make your tone louder, simply turn up the volume!
Most people who use a booster need it as an "effect", either as a pre-gain to an effect (overdrive etc.), or as a simply clean boost of volume (after the effect). Or, perhaps, to amplify a low-output signal (usually passive basses) into a high-output one.

Like I've said before, and I guess many would agree:
If you need a simple boost of volume, put it after your comp.
If you need to get something wacky and experimental (depending on how you set your comp), put it before the comp.
In both cases, the booster should be turned on whenever it's required. To use it as an "always-on" effect simply for louder volume seems quite extravagant. Why not just use of the makeup gain on your compressor? Or... just turn up the volume of your bass/amplifier.

Bottomline:
Try everything out, and see what you like. And... share what you've found!

 

[Colarndo]

Hmm an age old discussion EQ before or after compression.

Many people do use EQ after compression, but they use it mildly between 3db-6db. That is acceptable.
I was referring to a situation where a person ends up boosting too much of a certain frequency till it may affect the entire signal as a whole which eventually may lead to distortion.

 

[godchuanz]

Colarndo,

If a person were to boost so much that it distorts the whole signal, it would be even worse if done before compression. So, saying that placing a booster after a compressor expands your dynamic range and nullifies the compressor is not right.

 

[Colarndo]

I didn't say it nullifies the compressor. I was saying that too much boosting isn't too good.

 

[godchuanz]

Colarndo,

Boosting too much is not good, regardless of before or after the comp.

You were saying on one of your previous posts that putting the booster after comp brings you back to square one, and you might as well not use a comp. I don't agree with this, and I'm sure many other people won't agree too.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point you wanted to put across is that a booster will re-expand the dynamics, and this I find hard to believe.

You made a recommendation to a fellow musician based on your understanding, which I believe to be flawed, and I pointed it out. No malice intended.


But anyway, I think the important point is really "What do you need the booster for?" I'll restate what I've said before:
1) If you want to make your low-output passive instrument into a higher level (maybe line-level), put it right at the beginning of the chain, with as little cabling in between as possible.
2) If you want to use it to "drive" your overdrive/distortion pedal, put it just before that pedal
3) If there's a pedal that takes away volume, and you want to boost your level back up, put it after that pedal. This is really almost the same as point 1, if you think about it a bit.

 

[funkygeos]

Pedal chain- bass>booster>comp>Fuzz>Amp

To my preference from some trials and errors, i decided to put the booster after my bass to boost the signal b4 going to the comp. As for the fuzz, it sound solid with the booster and the comp on active. The fuzz sound more mids with booster on and comp off. A bit compression make a little different i think.

As for clean tone, I tried boosting a lot on the booster and with the comp active, the low end distort, therefore i set it to a level where the distortion seems minimum. I think a preamp would be better place for the booster.. Any inputs guys??