Chord fingering - Traditional or Personal?

ATW10C

New member
Should I follow the recommended or traditional fingerings or use my own.

I have been using the traditional ones. But that was for like C, F, G, etc. C - 5,2,1, F - 4,2,1, G - 5,3,1...

Now, I came across this progression, F, Am, Dm.
F - 4,2,1 to Am - 5,3,1. I find I could do Am as 4,2,1 and same for Dm. Seems less 'fidgeting' with 4,2,1.

My fingers are long.
 
For the chords, which position are you referring to (root, 1st inversion or 2nd inversion)? Also, are you referring to the right or left hand? Note that numbering always start from the lowest note to the highest note. Also, what style are you playing (legato, staccato etc)?
 
I guess he is referring to the left hand doing root , fifth followed by another root or thirds or others in eighths , typical richard clayderman style....hehe...

though some traditional fingering has logical reason...

I believe as long as you know the traditional, you can twist and turn as you wish ...as long as it feels comfortable to you......

I have seen a pianist with less then 10 fingers, she has no choice if you know what I mean..ultimately the music that comes out must be nice....that the main thing....

just my thoughts....
 
Lestermusic, his examples doesn't sound like the fingering you are mentioning. It's quite confusing what is actually being asked.
 
R.H

basic triads

root position = 1 3 5

1st inversion = 1 2 5

2nd inversion = 1 3 5



full octave voicings (e.g. C E G C)

root position = 1 2 3 5

1st inversion = 1 2 4 5

2nd inversion = 1 2 4 5





L.H

Three main shapes in L.H. - root and 5th - normally fingered 5 1, or 5 2, depending on what is coming next.

root/5th/octave - fingered 5 2 1

root/sth/10th (3rd) - fingered 5 2 1



You need to see each chord for what it is i.e. if it is root position in RH etc.
 
For the chords, which position are you referring to (root, 1st inversion or 2nd inversion)? Also, are you referring to the right or left hand? Note that numbering always start from the lowest note to the highest note. Also, what style are you playing (legato, staccato etc)?

Oops. Wasn't clear.

Its for the left hand.

Traditional fingering of F, Am, Dm that I use as recommended by a book (Guessing rational seems to be to movement expediency)
F - 4:A 2:C 1:F (1st inversion)
Am - 5:A 3:C 1: E (straight)
Dm - 5:A 2:D 1:F (2nd inversion)

I could keep my 4th finger at A all the time and dun really need to switch from 2-1 to 3-1 and back 2-1.

I wonder if I "motor memory" the chords to a personal fingering scheme, for this progression it seems more efficient but later on, in some other sequence, the traditional maybe more efficient. Then ... die. Have to retrain again.

When doing 4-2-1 for straight G natural chord from a 1st inversion F, I noticed resistance to doing a "movement shift" while maintaining 4-2-1 as I had previously did straight G with 5(G)-3(B)-1(D). So I am not sure if I could as Lester_Music says, learn different fingers and do them on the fly with ease.
 
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I used to train both hand chords with circle of fifth and fourth rule. You can start C in any inversion,then you go G for clockwise direction and F for anit-clockwise direction. The rule that one finger must not lift up when changing between chord. Only work on staccato in major and minor chord. It is quite a brain teaser when trying up.
 
I used to train both hand chords with circle of fifth and fourth rule. You can start C in any inversion,then you go G for clockwise direction and F for anit-clockwise direction. The rule that one finger must not lift up when changing between chord. Only work on staccato in major and minor chord. It is quite a brain teaser when trying up.

Sounds interesting, will try.
 
Hm...on a scale of 1-10, how important would you say fingering is? Because right now I do all my playing via brute motor memory. Anything new is simply practised until I memorise it...Would it seriously improve the learning speed of my playing if I trained more of fingering?
 
You only spend 1% of time to understand the theory and rest are brute practice. Now I do some improvisation and ear training. Start to pick up piano score with that 1% knowledge. For fingering once you get, you may throw that forever. You will develop your own fingering practice overall time with song that you play.
 
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Would it seriously improve the learning speed of my playing if I trained more of fingering?

Yes, it would.

You'd eventually 'see' chords for what they are. You'd be playing something and would be like 'oh, that's just a 2nd inversion Bm', and consequently would know the fingering etc etc.

(Debussy's music is easy to see in this way if you have a good understanding of chords.)

But it depends how you practise and what you mean by 'training fingering'. If you mindlessly practise scales daily, you can actually do great damage by practising them technically wrong. and that's hard to fix.

What do you mean 'if I trained more of fingering'?
 
^Oh...uh...When I see a second inversion Bm or whatever inversion of a chord my hand just automatically moves there in the most comfortable position, without any thought as to what fingering I should use. I don't practise scales at all actually, I just play songs.

If I trained more on fingering would mean conciously putting an effort to use certain fingering for certain parts of a song, instead of just using whatever is the most comfortable. How would it decrease the time spent for learning a new song?
 
^Oh...uh...When I see a second inversion Bm or whatever inversion of a chord my hand just automatically moves there in the most comfortable position, without any thought as to what fingering I should use.

I've given the 'standard' fingering for basic chords earlier on in this thread. However, it should be noted that the standard fingering can vary, depending on what's coming next, and what has come before.

Each instance is different, so it all depends. Conversely though, if you feel your technique is an issue, then you must feel there is a problem with your fingering?

Learn the basic fingerings for the shapes and try those.




If I trained more on fingering would mean conciously putting an effort to use certain fingering for certain parts of a song, instead of just using whatever is the most comfortable. How would it decrease the time spent for learning a new song?

Because you could learn a piece sitting on the train, or could walk along the sea front with the score in your hand and learn the piece. You could look at a score and see a chord as, for example, a 2nd inv. Bm (as we were saying earlier), and write in above the chord what it is. This way you will know a good chunk of the song (know the chords and the fingering) before having ever played it on your instrument.

Like I said, I personally find Debussy easy to learn this way (PS this is only one of many ways of learning a piece. But the subject is chords, hence focusing on this). I learned Debussy's 12th etude ('pour les accords') this way, and 'knew the notes' before playing it at the piano.

There's a good chance that specific setions you have trouble visualising when purely looking at the score are the same sections you'll have difficulty in actually playing when at the piano. Which makes sense, as your hands only do what your brain tells them to do. So if your mind isn't fully in control of what you are meant to be doing, your fingers never will be.


PS i'm assuming by your user name you're a Mahler fan?!
 
^Hm I don't think I have any problem with my technique, my teacher always told me to use whatever is the most comfortable and most natural to me - Which also means my fingering varies from time to time each time I play that certain chord. I was just wondering if I could cut down the time spent learning songs. And...I'm not a classical music player! Thanks for the help!
 
^Hm I don't think I have any problem with my technique, my teacher always told me to use whatever is the most comfortable and most natural to me - Which also means my fingering varies from time to time each time I play that certain chord. I was just wondering if I could cut down the time spent learning songs. And...I'm not a classical music player! Thanks for the help!

How exactly do you spend your time when learning songs? What do you do to learn them? If you say exactly what you do when learning something then it'll be easier to say what you could do to improve it, as there's no 'one way' to do something that'll guarantee success.

A busket list of how best to learn something could be made here, but it'll probably have no relevance whatsoever to what you are doing at present.

I realised you weren't a classical player - my whole point of bringing up the Debussy issue was to show that regardless of style, having a knowledge of how to approach something before learning it (in this instance, a basic knowledge of chords) can help.
 
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^I just listen to songs and then figure out the chords and melody lines by trial and error. First I work out the bass chords, next I work out the melody line, next I expand the melody line from single notes to chords. I'll also go and look for scores to make my life easier and to see if I can expand from them as well. Yep I do have a basic knowledge of chords. Haha I'm sorry for totally ignoring your statements on Debussy, I just wasn't interested in looking him up.

Anyway now, I have and I found out Clair De Lune was by him. Pardon my ignorance.
 
^I just listen to songs and then figure out the chords and melody lines by trial and error.

Never the best approach. Try to establish the key the song is in - everything else is easier from there.

There are many ways to establish the key - if you have the three major chords, you have the key. You can also work out the key from the melody. Amongst many other ways.

But in order to do this you'll need to have a knowledge of keys/scales/chords etc.


Scores aren't necessary, depending on what you are doing - some people read from them, others don't. If you don't read scores, then stick with what you are doing (for now) - but learn as much as possible about how the way you are learning is done by others (i.e. learning about scales, chords etc etc). But, of course, being able to read music is a big part of being a musician. It depends on outlook and what you wish to achieve.

You don't just need to learn the theory - you need to learn how to apply it.
 
^Yes by determining the chords, I will naturally find the key won't I?

Not necessarily. Many pop pieces only use a few chords.

If you had something with (for example) only the chords Am, Dsus2, and C, it could be numerous keys i.e. key of C, key of F, key of G.
 
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