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Old 15-12-04, 03:26 PM
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Default how to solo and improvise

I don't know how to use scales

can someone give me some pointers?

I am trying to just fill in some licks on a live version of Knockin On Heavens door by Eric Burdon , Rory Gallagher and David Lindley. I can do some licks but running out of ideas.

Thx enig
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Old 15-12-04, 04:23 PM
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"How to solo and improvise" - quite possibly the biggest single open-ended subject in music today.

Ok - I assume you don't want to play like Allan Holdsworth (master improvisor) over your "Knockin' on Heaven's" door song and want something more like 70s era Clapton (noobs look it up - he has a nice version).

Okay - a bit of Googling revealed the following chord chart for Clapton version (sorry - i don't know the Burdon version, but I assume the chords are the same) -


http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/...s_door_crd.htm

So the chords are G D C Am, which means the key is G. (All chords in G would be G Am Bm C D Em F#Dim).

So, I make the assumption that you want to play a conventional solo with a matching scale in the same key and nothing too fancy at this juncture like outside notes, or changing modes on each chord etc.. which is a bit more advanced.

So, here's my recommendation:

Learn the G Major scale. G A B C D E F#.
Start by playing notes from this scale along to the music. Try to break up your lines into phrases - in other words, don't just play one continuous never-ending line (unless that's the effect you're going for). Clapton, for example plays short little bursts of notes, say, from 2 notes in a lick, up to between 6-12 notes. Now, the hardest part is this - you'll notice that when you end your phrases, some of the notes either 'work' or they don't although all the notes are harmonically valid within the key, at certain points, some of them sound better. The ones that sound better are the notes that correspond to the notes of the chord which is underneath at any time so:
G Major = G B D, so ending your lick on one of these notes (especially the 1st) will sound 'strong'.
D Major = D F# A, likewise
C Major = C E G, likewise
Am = A C E, likewise.

Now, how do you do this? Well one way is to memorise all the notes on the entire fretboard - good luck, see you in 20 years.

The other way is to memorise chord shapes along the fretboard (easier, but still several years of effort). So, you need to eventually learn, for example, all the different shapes of G Major over the entire neck in thr long run.

If this sounds too daunting, for your current needs, i suggest picking a couple of key positions and concentrating on knowing the chord shapes in those.

E.g.

5th position, know an Am Chord and some of the notes of C Major
12th Position, know a G Major and a D shape.

Of course, you can choose whatever/wherever.

To simplify things slightly more, superimpose the pentatonic shapes over each chord as it passes, and attempting to gravitate your lick end notes to the chord tones, so

G Major - play a G Major Pentatonic in the 12th position, and when the next bar comes and it changes to D, then finsih your lick on one of the D chord tones.

etc.

This is one way of soloing and applying scales to chords. I can't say I'm particularly good at this myself because I don't practice it enough. Like anything you need to do it a lot, but then, therein lies the fun. I've been trying to get this right for the best part of 20 years and I'm still having fun.

Happy journey!
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Old 15-12-04, 08:00 PM
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ok its getting clearer since u mentioned the part about

"G Major - play a G Major Pentatonic in the 12th position, and when the next bar comes and it changes to D, then finsih your lick on one of the D chord tones. "

I have memmorised the entire fretboard...will this help?
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Old 15-12-04, 08:00 PM
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whoa! great post! *points upwards*
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Old 16-12-04, 05:12 AM
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throw out the thinking part and start playing with your heart (also an excuse for me not understanding a shit bout the earlier post hahaha) \m/
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Old 16-12-04, 11:26 AM
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You should always play with just your heart like what dhalif said, only then will the music have soul in it... but like what he said too, you wouldn't know theory then! :wink:

Try to learn some theory, it can help you immensely, especially when it comes to jazz and soloing over complicated chords...G13(#11) kind of stuff... Theory is something that always helps the musician until the musician starts to compose with his brain... souless music is always boring, and makes the solos machanical.

Another way to play solos is to use your voice... hum or go lalala over the chords... improvise a humming solo, then play it out on the guitar... very easy to get started with this but the biggest problem is that you'd tend to play the same thing over and over and over again...

Always remember that when you solo, its really you there, taking out something from inside you, to tell the listener a story or bring the listener on an emotional voyage...
And be open minded when you solo... Never get boxed up playing the same licks over and over... Or even insisting that pentatonics must be played in a certain way... Experiment and challenge yourself to be different every time you play every day...
Lastly, practice like hell. I sit at home for hours doodling on my guitar... set aside some time to practice everyday and get a good practice schedule... skill doesn't drop out of the sky, if you don't practice, you'd never get to be good.

Shred on brother... when you start to totally kick ass in your solos, rem us in the forums who helped jump start ya!
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Old 16-12-04, 11:45 AM
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whoah! I stared at the major and minor peta scale and i can solo and insert stuff! Thx guys! This is a kickoff!! 8)
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Old 16-12-04, 11:55 AM
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just wondering who does solo here with little or no knowledge of scales?
i tried using scales , pentatonic ones, then the minor ones. Found it very restrictive..so in the end i didnt use them at all. As long as it sounds right together with the chords its ok?
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Old 16-12-04, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShredCow
Another way to play solos is to use your voice... hum or go lalala over the chords... improvise a humming solo, then play it out on the guitar... very easy to get started with this but the biggest problem is that you'd tend to play the same thing over and over and over again...
This is very good advice. Ultimately, where you want to be is when the instrument is no barrier between the musical voice in your head, and what comes out from your hands. Scales, chords, theory, technique etc. are all tools for expression - not a end in themselves, but a means to an end - that goal of 'playing from the heart'. You need not know everything - all the chords, all the scales, all the modes, etc. and you can go as far as you wish to take it (one of the beauties of music) but I firmly believe that knowing and having a command of at least some of this is essential for *all* musicians who want to improvise melodically (note I distinguish between this and other avant garde types of improv which, while just as musically valid, might not be so conventionally aurally pleasing..)

By singing a line and then replicating it on your instrument, you are gradually teaching yourself to 'hear' the tune in your head and then play it. This is very, very difficult except for those blessed with perfect pitch but you can teach yourself to do it gradually. Like anything, the more you do it, the better you will get at it.

Start with small steps. Stay within some confined boundaries to begin with; maybe you want to devote practice sessions in which you play nothing but A minor Pentatonic. When you play each note, try to 'hear' within your head *before* you play that note, what it will sound like. Sometimes you'll get it right; gradually you will get better. Soon you will be able to 'think' the note in your 'mind's ear' and play it at the same time. From here, move on - perhaps expand to play all the notes within a single key - say C Major for ease and familiarity; play lines, but sing the notes to yourself internally (or out loud if you wish - some say this helps reinforce the learning). As you get more and more advanced, you can add in notes outside the current key - this is where things start to get more tough. The important thing throughout all of this (and I can't stress this enough) is that you must try to think MELODY at all times, not just let your fingers fly; this is when you will discover new things rather than just rehash licks that you learned by rote. And of course, it goes without saying that you want to start off playing SLOWLY.

This can be a lifelong journey for the musician who really wants to create spontaneous music. I can't say I'm an expert by any means, but on those rare occasions that I do manage to get in the 'mental zone' where the music really seems to be coming from some subconscious place, there really is nothing better than that.

Happy noodling.

Vern
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Old 16-12-04, 01:53 PM
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Hendrix- not particularly my fav player but i embrace his philosophy: translate what's playing in your mind to you guitar, forget rules for a while. i've been doing that all these while & it makes me a better player... if you can similarly embrace this conceptual approach, you'd be surprised how articulate you'd be along the way. the reason why anyone would pick up a musical instrument is to 'say' things through them. articulation makes a better player IMO rather than mastering schooled thoughts & then not knowing what to say...

John McLaughlin had this to say about articulation: "... no matter how inspired you are, if you don't have the means to articulate on the instrument, you'll be defeated in your attempts to say the unsayable."
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