G Major = G B D, so ending your lick on one of these notes (especially the 1st) will sound 'strong'.
D Major = D F# A, likewise
C Major = C E G, likewise
Am = A C E, likewise.
vernplum, thanks for the advice on the soloing part. But I got a question, if the song is a jazz one, say in Gmaj7 Family, then for a simple chord sequences of
Gmaj7 Cmaj7 D7 Am7
then how do I need to play to make the licks sound strong over each of the chord, as what you have said? And how does differents modes(Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian etc) come into play?
Regarding soloing over those 7th chords, the principal is the same in that the chord tones are the strong notes and are the ones that you want to emphasize the most. Of course, you need to know either the chord spelling, e.g. Gmaj7 - G B D F#, or, you need to know the shapes of the chord all over the fretboard.
I'm not really a jazz person, so I'm not clued up on all the fancy ways to apply modes over the various chords. For example, for the Dm7 you can apply D Dorian (from C major scale) but for Am7, jazz players often treat this as the II chord in the key a step below, in other words, for Am7 in this progression, you could apply A Dorian (from G Major scale) over it.
I would welcome any insite any advanced jazzers can give here...
Essentially, all the modes u just listed are the notes found in the G maj scale. Many jazzers don't care about modes. They think of the chords and melody and work around these things. Most good musicians won't even think in modes, they think in terms of 'sound' rather than scales.
IMO, scales with 'fancy' names is a way to make music academic as well as make money from selling books etc. Most importantly, if u can't hear the chord tones, no matter how many scales one knows, he won't be able to improvise effectively.
Well, like I said, I'm not a jazzer, so I can't say how they think.
You're correct, all those modes are part of the same scale - G major. There is more to them than simply naming them so that it makes music 'academic' to sell books (modes were around long before commercial music book publishing came on the scene) - the whole point of modes is that they stress a certain tonal centre and they are a useful tool for learning how to improvise.
Are you sure about that point that most 'good' musicians think in terms of 'sound' rather than scales? Probably many do, but I doubt they got to the status of being 'good' musicians without learning a scale or two.
Also, can you tell us how exactly a jazz musician 'thinks of the chords and melody and works around it'? It sounds like an easy shortcut if only you could expand somewhat.
Well, like I said, I'm not a jazzer, so I can't say how they think.
You're correct, all those modes are part of the same scale - G major. There is more to them than simply naming them so that it makes music 'academic' to sell books (modes were around long before commercial music book publishing came on the scene) - the whole point of modes is that they stress a certain tonal centre and they are a useful tool for learning how to improvise.
Are you sure about that point that most 'good' musicians think in terms of 'sound' rather than scales? Probably many do, but I doubt they got to the status of being 'good' musicians without learning a scale or two.
Also, can you tell us how exactly a jazz musician 'thinks of the chords and melody and works around it'? It sounds like an easy shortcut if only you could expand somewhat.
Scales is an execellant facility for technique and fretboard logic, but when it comes to real improvisation, it is rarely thought of in scalar form. Why do you think some players don't transcribe from other guitarists? Guitarists tend to 'box' up their improvisations, relying on positional security.
If you have listened to pat metheny's clinic, he chooses what notes to play by hearing tones relative to the chords. For e.g. over a C maj 7 which is C E G B, he hears all the other tones such as D, Eb, F, F#/Gb, G#, Ab, Bb. Essentially this is playing by sound. Real improvisors pre-hear what they want to play. Most players will know the scales but when they play, they have the melody in their head and phrase a solo thinking about the melody and chords. Sometimes they don't even bother about the chords! If you play an Eb over C maj it sounds 'bad' in most contexts but what if the player wants that 'bad' sound?
Like all art, it is usually about the intention and real improvisation requires a high degree of relative pitch. I say relative pitch because a classical musician with perfect pitch may not be able to improvise. One can bluff his way using scales and licks but when you play with a good pianist who reharmonises stuff all the time, how are you going to use your modes in the first place when you don't even know what chord is being played?
Most good musicians don't like to talk about modes, scales etc minus those in academia. That's where the phrase 'if you can sing it, you can play it' came about. I like to make an analogy to language. When you are typing, are you thinking of nouns, tenses, and grammer in general? Obviously not, for you would take a month to type out your reply to me. You hear the phrase in your head and the sentence makes sense intuitively. That's because we have mastered the language to a certain level. How did we learn a language? By reading and listening. The grammer books helped straighten out some loose ends. Same thing with Music. Some get there by reading and listening, some get it purely by listening. Scales is one of the means but it's very easy to blindly practice scales without listening to the scales effectively. Most of the time, scalar practice just degenerates into pure technique exercises. Reading, listening and transcribing is more effective as an approach to learning improvisation.
Ablue - please read my earlier posts further up this thread, especially the one that begins "This is very good advice..." you'll see that in many respects I couldn't agree more with many of your points about more advanced improvisational aspects.
However, what we started out trying to address was a plea for help in some foundational knowledge in to how to apply scales over chords. Note I qualify my statements very clearly with the method being *one* way of approaching improvisation, and I try to give steps as practically useful as possible, and as simple as possible so somebody can get started right away.
Yes - by all means, Pat Metheny's technique is a very good alternative way to approach it, but I do strongly disagree with your statement that good musicians doing 'real' improv rarely think in terms of scales. Look at Allan Holdsworth - have you checked out his training DVD? He talks about 10 scales that he uses. Joe Pass - on his 'Jazz Lines' DVD - scales and arpeggios over chords and things such as 'what to play over an altered dominant chord'. Frank Gambale - scales, modes, etc. John McLaughlin on his latest "how I do it" DVD covers scales and modes very extensively. Are you saying that what they are saying is bunk? Ok - granted - they might not be thinking all the time "right, this is a B minor chord coming up, so I have an option to play a Dorian mode, or a harmonic minor or something else" but in composing those tunes and working out what they can play over them, the knowledge of scales and how they work harmonically is almost certainly heavily utilised.
I can't believe that Pat Metheny got to where he is today without learning scales and modes and to say something like "scales with 'fancy' names is a way to make music academic as well as make money from selling books etc. " is bordering on irresponsible in that it is likely to turn some beginners away from learning these necessities in favour of your more esoteric and difficult suggestions. So now what do you recommend to Hofner of practical value that he can use right away to play a solo to "Knockin' on Heaven's Door"? Do you advocate that he try to hear all the individual tones as extensions to the underlying chordal harmony as it passes? For a beginner, that's simply too difficult. Seriously - I'm asking you - please tell us what it is he should do, if it isn't learning scales and modes in context against a chord. I'd really like to know as well.
I am not advocating the running up and down of scales and modes in a robotic manner - what people traditionally think of when they hear these words. I advocate knowing these scales as a safe and trusted framework of knowing which notes will work in certain situations. You can't hear in your head what notes in a scale are going to be like against a chord if you never played that scale before in your life.
Also, let's not forget that Jazz isn't the only type of music that is improvised. Nearly all types of music include it and have proponents within that style. The method I describe in this thread is adequate for Rock, which is my main stomping ground.
Last of all, just to redress the balance for the poor old Classical musicians, one of the greatest improvisors of all time (most of his compositions were created spontaneously, then written down) with the most prolific and massive outputs ever, whose music has lasted the best part of 500 years was Johann Sebastian Bach - and what did he rely on as part of his extensive arsenal in creating his staggering body of work? The modes.
ops: :cry:
