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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 26-06-08, 04:14 PM
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ac : oh great, you also got that sync problem? at first i thought it was because my sd card too slow or something. so i didn't really dare to "broadcast" this problem until I've confirmed. I've been searching for forums with answers to that, cos I thought it's probably a firmware bug etc. I hope they come up with a firmware that fixes this soon. or at least hope it's not a hardware bug. the latency problem seems to lie between the inbuilt mics > the recording medium. but not the SD card. because the piano recording I did with the Rode NT3s > XLR inputs > Zoom H4 was perfect sync with my vidcam. so it can't be the SDcard.

this latency drift seems to be quite a serious problem eh.

and yes that bass frequencies, I did alot of lows roll off during editing/mixing stage.

jesus : my next "to-do + review" is to see if Zoom H2 has this sync problem towards the video. my friend has a zoom h2, will probably give it a shot with it. but the feedback I get from Zoom H2 is pretty good too. the whole "dropped a few times but no problems" thingy.

THOA : yeah man, XLR / ¼ jack input + phantompower + preamp etc for that price is worth it for alot of people.

sorry about the info disorganisation. it was rush typed and there're still "To-Dos" which i don't have the time to test until I have recording scheduled. i will consider "narrating what i typed" through a youtube video with and hands on footage also. that should work out better.

but what I didn't quite understand is : "those who are technically less inclined will have a hard time understanding some bits" for real? which bits man? i thought I tried to explain as layman as I could haha.. without drawing it out (that one idiot proof already) on mspaint or somethin.
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Old 30-06-08, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueprintstudios View Post
jesus : my next "to-do + review" is to see if Zoom H2 has this sync problem towards the video. my friend has a zoom h2, will probably give it a shot with it. but the feedback I get from Zoom H2 is pretty good too. the whole "dropped a few times but no problems" thingy.
eagerly awaiting this, was wondering just how bad the drifting on the H2 is!
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Old 01-07-08, 09:35 AM
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i've been speaking with a few zoom H4/H2 owners and citymusic and zoom japan themselves. will report in a week's time after a few experiments.
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Old 01-07-08, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by blueprintstudios View Post
but what I didn't quite understand is : "those who are technically less inclined will have a hard time understanding some bits" for real? which bits man? i thought I tried to explain as layman as I could haha.. without drawing it out (that one idiot proof already) on mspaint or somethin.
Lol, no need to go into MS Paint, bro

I think the confusion can set in because of the fact you went a little too detailed with the OTHER gears that you are using with it as well. For example:

"in this situation I used H4 as a USB audio interface with an Asus EEE 4G PC (900mhz,512mb ram, and 4GB harddisk) the fender mustang guitars are recorded D.I through a Zoom 505ii. so far preamps as a line input is fine."

"what you hear here is raw H4micsstereodrumsrecording for 1st 19 seconds, then the raw D888 multitrack recording then the Bass D.I into the D888 the same session, then after that as above, the Zoom H4 recordings as an audio interface with the zoom 505ii , and the vocals raw mixed."

"what I've yet to try is, when using the Zoom H4 mics, there's an emulation for SM57/U87/C414 etc. it was too late recording Rika that night. so i was too tired already, next day still got dayjob work. I may arrange with Rika's vocalist to do me one demo vocal track with my fake "Neumann U87". but I will actually try A/B mic up a guitar amp Shure SM57 with the Zoom's "SM57" . i don't have a C414 nor U87. but will try those anyway."

It's great to see that you are testing out the H4 with all your gears (and let me add, you have a mighty fine line up of gears! *GAS!*), but I think alot of things like D888, Zoom 505ii, DI, SM57/U87/C414 etc, a newbie might not understand or know, and it might create more confusion than it helps.

Also, as I said before, I find the information a little hard to digest cos you went straight to demo. I'm not saying that your review is not useful. It is definitely detailed, and the gear geeks among us definitely appreciates it. The thing is, for me, I am quite familiar with most of what you are saying, but someone who just want this for a specific function (recording band demo or live location sound) and is thinking of using only this without any supplementary gear, they might find it a little too intimidating.

I would suggest (and this IS a suggestion, not something you have to adhere to, really):

- Start of what the Zoom H4 is. A small description as an introduction to the device.

Eg:
Zoom H4 is a digital multi track recording device, which allows users to record in digital format. However, H4 has loads of features that pretty much expands its capability beyond just a simple recording device; it has a built-in studio effects such as compression, limiting, mic modeling, external inputs for mics and line, guitar and bass amp modelling, as well as a USB capabilities for direct to PC connections, which effectively makes it a functionally capable digital audio interface as well. More on those functions later.

- Then perhaps go into the physical specs and features, like how many 1/4"/XLR inputs and outputs does it have, how many batteries. does it need and what type etc (I know, I know these info can find over the net, but some people are just plain lazy. Also, most reviews on gear mags do have a short brief mention on some of the basic features as well.

- Then perhaps go into the highlights/specific features (like the mic modelers, studio effects etc) that are not available on any other device and your personal experience in using them: what do you personally like about it? Or do you find them an overkill, or even a nuisance? Other specific things that you might want to highlight are concerns that people might have, like what they REALLY mean when they say "4 tracks" (like what Dir had wanted to know).

- Of course, next comes the sound quality, especially the use of the in built mic, mic modeler, amp modeler, effects, etc. Including a demo would be great (but you have already done so, so yeah)

- Can the review with a summary of sort, in terms of overall value, and perhaps where further info can read about it, or where we can buy it from.

I know there are some things that I mention that you have already included in your review. I am being generic with my comments, more looking into how any reviews could be done. So yeah, I guess it just need to be a tiny bit more trimmings.

I hope I am making sense and being helpful with my comments.

Cheers!
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Old 02-07-08, 11:03 AM
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Are you sure the sync with a nt3 and the vidcam is fine? The problem should be independent of the mics used. I think with the low grade timing crystals, the drift would be inconsistent for each device, so a hardcoded firmware fix might not be possible.
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Old 02-07-08, 09:37 PM
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ac :
well when I did the girl's liza gershwin piano audio recording + video, I didn't realise the H4 drift problem yet , and it wasn't even obvious cos the H4 audio sat in nicely in sync with the videocam's audio! and I left the H4 to record for an hour plus. no out of sync at all!only until recently I did the plainsunset video where the footage runs for about 45 mins to an hour. at first I thought it was a problem with my SDHC card , like slow or something. but can't be cos I did a recording on 50x speed sd card.
so again I thought it was something wrong with my DAW or my H4 ,I checked the firmware I checked everything it was fine, until I googled, and damn it's all over the net.. so now that you ask me this question again, what can I say, I don't think I'm sure! hahah, I WILL try again to be very sure and film it down.

but again I do guitar/bass D.I recording and Rode NTK vocal mic into the H4, it's perfect sync/timing. so doesn't seem to have drift problems with the XLR/quart jack inputs.

thats why I believe the problem lies in between the inbuilt mics > SD card recording. I will go into this in detail with tests (and filmed on video cam). I'm buying another Zoom H4 from a friend again and just to be sure if different drift problem varies between different H4s. I contacted citymusic too, maybe I can even review the sync problem in detail with 3 H4s + 1 H2. at citymusic.

THOA : ahh ok, sorry i'm not too good with my presentation hehe. actually I've been thinking of scrapping the typed out reviews. and put it straight into video narration, youtube style. and yeah like you said I went straight into demo because I wanted to skip all over-repeated "introduction to H4" that's all over the net. and to include other "bedroom recording level" gears to compare the sound/possibilities/flexibilities and also I specially mentioned the 900mhz 512mb ram asus eee because the specs are so crappy compared to the average desktop PC and I perform fine with it! know what I mean? heheh.. but thanks for all the highlights too! I have a better idea of how to put it the next trial. like split the videos section for the [newbies] , and for the [more serious ones].

I've been concerned about whether to further "broadcast" this drift problem of H4s , as if I'm bringing a bad reputation to it. but then again because H4 is really flexible and great for its price and that ever-updating firmware version. I think honesty is the best policy, hopefully it'll encourage zoom to fix this problem asap and make it as perfect as it's capable of.

Last edited by blueprintstudios; 02-07-08 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 02-07-08, 11:40 PM
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Ah, I see. Now I get what you are trying to do.

Well, perhaps the sort of "introduction-to-h2" review is like all over the net and may seem like a boring idea, but it's a familiar format which I personally don't mind reading, because everyone of them offer different perspectives and thoughts into the device they are reviewing. If you were to go by that tried and tested way, what makes yours different is that we are familiar with who you are (a fellow softie!), and we damn sure knows that you are not getting paid for a bias review, lol.

But yeah, that's just my opinion on this. I think a Youtube demo would be a great idea! It has more reach, so you won't just be helping Softies, but in fact anyone who happen to search for reviews of a specific gear.

Really looking forward to the next gear you are planning to review. Good luck to you, sir. 8-)
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Old 03-07-08, 10:05 AM
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haha thank you. actually even if i'm not paid, but I AM biased with this H4 because I vote for anything that's cost efficient. (low cost, and very efficient) and besides it's a pity when someone reviews says "buy zoom h4, 4 tracker for demos, and stereo recorder for jam session" and you pay like $350-$400 for it. sounds expensive!

but if you put it this way : a "guitar/bass processor D.I (usually cost $100 and above)" , "2 XY condenser mics (usually cost $100) with mic modelling capability" , "tuner ($25)" , "XLR/¼jack inputs x2 preamp with phantom power ($??, lets say $200)" , "inbuilt compressor/limiter efx" , "Portability, runs on 2xAA Batts (usually ppl have to pay loads for portability)" , "audio interface" etc etc etc I can go on about what I've previously posted but I'll save it for the video.. but now that I've listed it's got more plus points than minus for that kind of cost.

i posted a H4 drift problem audio update in the Zoom H2 thread :
http://soft.com.sg/forum/gear-sound/...tml#post672113

hopefully in the long run i'll be able to cover more bedroom level cost based recording gear, like the often mentioned Presonus fp10 / line6 toneport ux2s , etc etc as well as further new invented toys on the recording shelf. i'm not expecting much attention from the professionals here who's handled huge mixer consoles and working in big studios, more for youths aged 16 - 40 years old who just wants more bang from their spare buck.

be right back after these messages...

20¢ worth
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Old 04-07-08, 04:24 PM
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latest update : I've found (well someone else in the world discovered the fix, I "found" his fix among the many forums in the world) the fix! comparing at the end of a 8 minute recording.

the time-drift-H4.wav turns out to be 122milisecond (which is alot) drift.
the FIXED-H4.wav is only 7 - 9 miliseconds drift which is very normal.

I'll be getting the other zoom h4 real soon to confirm this fix works for more than 1 zoom H4. cheers.
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Old 23-07-08, 10:59 AM
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by the way.. i thank all who take their time to read this thread. i'm surprised james(soft) put up on the main page even though this review hasn't been "completed". I've been busy with some personal projects of my own. but rest assured this will not fade out half way. I already spoke to a voluntary band to help test out the H4 in august. as well as city music's support (thanks to yeegn lougn and burn) for allowing me to cover more other gear (like Zoom H2).

I will be putting H4 to the test for "speech/vocals only situation" on a short drama/theatre act @ Nanyang poly this friday.

and has anyone watched Arts Central's "Frequency Of the City : Campus Edition" ? isn't it interesting, they say Zoom H2's mics are same level quality as Zoom H4. so in a way, a new purpose for Zoom H4/H2 is that they work great as "Location Sound Collectors". used in the rain, used near a carrot cake frying pan, and a porsche exhaust with the engine revving.

till the next update.
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